Replacement Autohelm

[stevepremia]

I am buying a boat with an old Autohelm 800 and I am thinking of upgrading it as I would like one with an "auto tack" type feature (which I don't think the 800 has). Can I get one that will fit into the same holes as the 800, particularly I mean the 12v socket and the fixing point in the cockpit? Has anybody else had experience of a simple upgrade from an 800?

Any advice or views would be much appreciated!

 

[Guest]

Who told you 800 has no Autotack feature ? It most certainly has ..... the direction of tack is decided by which two buttons you press together .... both -1 -10 buttons together tacks to port .... +1 +10 together tacks to stbd ...

I have both 800 and 1000 models and both work same ... 1000 just a little quicker that's all......

If you want manual for the 800 - PM me and I'll e-mail it to you.

Oh - you'll find only item you cannot do with the 800 / 1000 as you have is connect to NMEA .... you need a ZO75 Nav Interface to convert NMEA to pulse ... and they are rare items to find !
You can also connect a remote pad via a cable to allow you to roam the boat ... I have one and it's magic ! Model ZO76 ....

The older AH's are excellent bits of kit and much better built than newer stuff ... and that's words from a repair guy who specialises in marine gear when I got my ZO75 from him !!

Seriously ... if it works - why waste over £200 on replacing ??

 

[stevepremia]

PM sent.

I am all into saving £200!

Thanks

 

[homa]

handbook

Look on the Raymarine web site under "retired products" you should be able to download the handbook for free

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
Who told you 800 has no Autotack feature

[/ QUOTE ] Nigel, it does depend how old it is and he did say "old".
I have an Autohelm 1000, bought around 1979 or 1980 IIRC. It definitely does not have any "autotrack" or any of the buttons you refer to. There was a similar 800 brought out a liitle later that was an economy version without the provision for a wind vane. Maybe that is what he has.
Both were superceded a few years later by "digital" versions which are the models you describe.

This is the OLD type 1000

 

[morgandlm]

Fully endorse sbc's comments about the 800. I inherited an inoperative one with my boat in early 2005. For £36 Raymarine overhauled it, found the dry joint and returned it. It's still in regular use on my Sadler 26 with no problems AND the auto-tack works fine provided that the sails are reasonably balanced.
Morgan

 

[stevepremia]

VicS is right, mine looks just like the beast in the picture. So my question still stands is it possible to replce this old one and use the same holes? Perhaps you have some insight Vic?

 

[hightech]

Later models have the fixing further apart, (regardless of maker). The pivot at the rear of the unit moved from 2-3 ins inboard, to the end of the unit. So you would need to fit the bush on the coaming etc further out. If the old unit has a ram extension then this can be shortened down to the same effect.
Plugs and sockets will most likely be very different.

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you have some insight Vic?

[/ QUOTE ] I am pretty certain that the 800 and 1000 models that followed (the ones Nigel talks about I guess) would be a straight swap as far as the mounting and tiler attachments are concerned. Various accessories were available, pedestals to raise the mounting, tiller brackets to adjust the height of the tiller attachments and extension pieces to accommodate different mounting to tiller distances. The picture is from the operating instructions. My own is mounted on the coaming which is just the right height to connect to the tiller with a straight extension to the ram.

Later models than that could well be a bit different. Hightech is right that the mounting on later ones (including those just mentioned ) is at the very end of the body but I am not sure if that makes any difference or if the body is simply shorter. Even if it is not then it just affect s the length of the ram extension that is required. I am inclined to disagree with Hightech on that point but if he knows for sure that he is right then fair enough.

As far as the power supply is concerned IIRC mine was supplied without a plug and socket and I simply fitted my own. In any case its not a problem just fit plug and socket of your choice BUT I don't know what is involved with the latest which can be interfaced with other instruments (the really old ones did not interface with anything, and of those that immediately followed I think the 800 may not have done while the 1000 did) I guess the power supply and interface are integrated into one connector. If so you will have to change the existing socket. It still should not be a problem.

Don't knock the old ones they were good bits of kit and mine is still going strong. I do concede that the modern ones have some great advantages and I sometimes think it would be nice if my old one expired so that I could justify a new one but while it is still going I won't be replacing it. It'll probably see me out!

The original makers, Nautech, were great people to deal with and I get the impression that Raymarine are not too bad either.

 

[stevepremia]

Many thanks VicS & Nigel and all. I have found that although the mountings may be the same and the power is a problem that can be overcome the mounting would need to be 5 1/2 inches further out. So as per my PMs & emails to Nigel I will probably stick with the old 800 for the moment.

 

[stevepremia]

To VicS, PM sent.

Cheers

 

[Guest]

Vics ... Steve and I have been chatting and yes he does have the older version with the dial on top as you show ... wasn't apparent in original post .... The old 800 wasn't so often seen as the 1000 - so assumed it was the later button job.

Yes agreed the older dial job doesn't have auto-tack - but really when yopu consider it - the reason mine and later have it - do you want to press +/-10 degree button 10 times to tack ? The dial model is easy - turn it 100 degrees in direction you want to tack ... of course helping by backing headsail, then not sheeting in too hard once through wind - allowing helm / boat to settle .... etc.

As you may appreciate - despite claims to contrary - enough marine electronics guys have told me that the older autohelms were better built than later models ! I know my gear has put up with abuse !!

 

[Guest]

"I am pretty certain that the 800 and 1000 models that followed (the ones Nigel talks about I guess) would be a straight swap as far as the mounting and tiler attachments are concerned. Various accessories were available, pedestals to raise the mounting, tiller brackets to adjust the height of the tiller attachments and extension pieces to accommodate different mounting to tiller distances. The picture is from the operating instructions. My own is mounted on the coaming which is just the right height to connect to the tiller with a straight extension to the ram."

No they are not .... the older 800 / 1000 had a yoke fitting with pin to go into bench / coaming - but next models up and later have a pin set into a boss at rear of case .... so Steve's mounting is at least 2 - 3" too far into centreline. He would have to remount.

Actually Steve and I have been e-mailing about this very subject and also the different models ...

Personally if the old 800 is working ... I'd stay with it .... often they come up on e-bay and can be easily repaired from a spares / repair one for peanuts of ebay.
My later AH1000 pushbutton job - I replaced entire internals after control board blew ... £50 .... even have a spare case, pushbutton board, motor, rod and guides !!

The only item that I miss is the direct NMEA capability which I would like.

 

[Guest]

"As far as the power supply is concerned IIRC mine was supplied without a plug and socket and I simply fitted my own. In any case its not a problem just fit plug and socket of your choice BUT I don't know what is involved with the latest which can be interfaced with other instruments (the really old ones did not interface with anything, and of those that immediately followed I think the 800 may not have done while the 1000 did) I guess the power supply and interface are integrated into one connector. If so you will have to change the existing socket. It still should not be a problem."

The later 800 is actually excactly same in all functions as the 1000 ... the only difference being the motor to extend / retract the rod. There may be a difference in the boards - but as I say all functions are same. Both take windvanes / RNI / Remote pad etc.
The connection is via a second plug other side of the mount pin. It's similar to a circular din plug with a slot to make sure correct alignment.
The power plug on all older units and later as mine was usually the DriPlug black plastic job ... but often people cut them off to fit own ... being only a two wire job + & - easy and no problem.

As Vics says .. I agree - I will stay with my units till they curl up their rods and die ... but I would like a NMEA compatible model ......... !!

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
The dial model is easy - turn it 100 degrees in direction you want to tack

[/ QUOTE ] The trouble with those old ones is that having a "proportional" sytem (I think that's the correct term) rather than being micro processor controlled they cannot compensate for weather helm so a 100 degree turn of the dial does not actually give you a 100 degree change of course under sail. Ok you learn how much to turn it I guess (A bit more than 100 degrees) but it is not made any easier by the crude markings on the dial. They are more decorative than functional IMO. (you also have to learn that you turn the dial in the opposite direction to the way you want the boat to turn!)

I cant say I never tack using it but mostly I unhitch it from the tiller, tack then reconnect it set for the new heading. (If I dont the mainsheet often unhitches it on the way past anyway!)

The old 800 was a budget version of the old (original?) 1000 without the provision for a wind vane. I dont think it had come into existence when I bought mine so you are right there weren't so many of them because they were not in production for so long.

As I said to Steve in a PM I'd love one of the new ones but while the old one keeps going £300 stays in the bank! Would not want to be without one now though!
It is about 27 years old so I certainly wont disagree about how well the old ones were made.

 

[Guest]

You mention Weather helm ... I read a bit about it in the older 800 manual I have ... interesting.
BUT - the later pushbutton as I have has sea-state compensation in it that "learns" while it steers ... BUT when you turn more than 10 degrees or tack - it starts all over again ... or if you change trim / heel / sail balance of boat - it starts all over again ... so similar result ...

Still as you say - wouldn't be without one !! Having lost mine on trip back across Baltic ... I know what its like to steer for 18hrs solid !! in fact it was 18 then 3 hr break in Gotland and then 24 to home ... UGH !! Did I sleep that night !!


My 1000 only went PHUT - through my own fault ... my remote shorted in the plug and blew the PIC on the board ...

Replaced bits and she's ready to go ... both my 800 & 1000 must be early 80's jobs ... maybe mid 80's ... and are reliable and tough.

I've heard of a few later models having water inside ... plugs faulty ... etc. I reckon one failure in all the years of mine is not bad ! 2 pilots .... each more than 20 yrs old and 1 failure !! Got to be a good advert.

The older dial ones like yours - plenty still around in GWO ...

It's funny the time my pilot failed - I didn't have my spre on board !! Actually probably good job too - I would probably have connected remote to it and PHUTTED that as well !!

Now I have to get that RNI working !!!!

 

[VicS]

I have now compared the installation instructions for mine with those for the current model. In fact there is just over 4" difference in the minimum tiller to mounting point distance. Mine 19", new ones 23.2". That would suit me perfectly as at present I use a 4" extension. on the ram. A new one would fit without the extension! So changing from one to the other is not always any problem at all. (Distance from rudder pivot point along the tiller is still the same and the fittings themselves appear to be the same)

 

[oldharry]

I have two AH800s, one older Analogue type inherited from a previous boat upgrade, and a digital one that came with the boat. I can endorse all the positive comments about either unit. The analog one isnt as clever at keeping the course, and is liable to wander off if the trim changes too much, but the digital version is pretty good and seems to keep up with more recent models.

I can confirm the autotack is only available on the digital one, but never had much problem with tacking the analog simply by swinging the compass dial through about 100 degrees, then fine tuning once everything settled down.

Mountings are different, and Vic's measurements are correct. The actual pins are the same size though, as are the tiller mount pins.

Two perfectly viable units which do the job entirely adequatley for boats within their range, and little point in upgrading if you already have the Digital version, unless you need the NMEA interface.