renewing wooden decks

[skipperscouse]

I am about to renew decks on my 42 ft ketch . Can anyone give me a contact for Teak in Lancs / M'side areas ?

Also any advice welcome . I plan to put a pli sub deck down and laminate it withTeak .

Also any advice on re-fastening pitch pine on oak hull.

Hope to sail to Australia when completed so want to do a first class job .

 

[DoubleEnder]

Search the threads, this is frequently discussed and you'll find lots of opinions and advice. FWIW I dont think teak on ply is a long term solution. There will be leaks through the teak, into the ply. You won't notice, because of the ply. The ply will then rot/delaminate, water will creep between the laminates, and this will cause problems in other parts of the boat. It will be hard to fix, because you won't know where the deckleaks are.

On the other hand, if you build a traditional laid deck, with the planks fastened to the deck beams - there will still be leaks. But you will notice, because it will drip on your face when you are in bed. You will then repair it, by recaulking where necessary. This will be quick and easy and the deck will last a long time.

That's my view, I'm sure others will differ. But I am putting my money where my mouth is on my boat

 

[ccscott49]

I tend to agree with you, if the decks are not done right, teak laid is a better bet. But my decks are teak on ply, teak glued (cascamite) down to the ply and then, screwed into the beams and plugged. That was in 1965, theres no rot in the subdeck atall, nor in the teak. mind you the ply is 3/4" as is the teak, so the decks are pretty thick and strong. Bit of replugging to do at the moment!!

 

[Mirelle]

I would not risk a teak-over-ply deck.

I think that a plywood deck covered in glass cloth is stronger, more watertight and more durable, as well as cheaper (not that much cheaper, if you use good plywood).

A nice, but more expensive, way to do such a deck is to fit teak covering boards. This gives a very nice appearance and will allow you to "get at" the framing for repair, should you ever need to, by lifting the covering board, if you fit the covering boards with conventional mastic. It also seals the edge of the ply nicely.

 

[ccscott49]

I personally dont like glass and resin on decks, I've found it cracks when the decks ineviatebly flex, the resin/glass is too stiff. Not sure what is best, but the old canvas soaked in paint seemed to work well. Are there plasticisers/glue/mastics and modern canvas available? dunno.
Also could you not just use ply and epoxy paint, thick! wiv antislip etc.

 

[Mirelle]

Yes, there are quite a variety. I think you can still get Cascover, for example.

 

[fishermantwo]

[ QUOTE ]
I personally dont like glass and resin on decks, I've found it cracks when the decks ineviatebly flex, the resin/glass is too stiff. Not sure what is best, but the old canvas soaked in paint seemed to work well. Are there plasticisers/glue/mastics and modern canvas available? dunno.
Also could you not just use ply and epoxy paint, thick! wiv antislip etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

My commercial fishing vessel is over 60 years old. When I bought it the decks were ply glassed over with csm. Never cracked but the ply rotted underneath. Most of the deck has now been replaced with treated pine decking planks laid with the grooves up. This is then covered with two layers of csm. Very strong and a solid feel under foot. The cabin is still glassed over ply and that caues problems where it meets the deck, there is a small crack there caused by movement. This is sealed by a strip of "cloth" and acrylic sealer thats been developed to seal shower recesses in homes. This product works well and can be painted over with any paint. How it would go over a full deck I'm not sure but it would certainly be better than the old painted canvass route. Check out these new products, there are a variety about now.

 

[ajc]

It will be interesting to see how my deck has fared, (see missing yacht ) I renewed the decks as part of her restoration and I laid teak onto Bruzeel ply (RNLI rated ) but I was very lucky in that in the months before I encountered two boat builders from highly reputable firms. The one piece of common ground was DO NOT screw the teak down, pellets pop out allowing water in. A method was devised using blocks and finger wedges which screwed down into the deck beams. This holds the teak down whilst glueing ( for glue we used Forbo Polyurethane ) the advantage is that your next plank completely covers the screw hole so you should only have to worry about the caulking.

As I have several friends who have experienced the pellet problem, I was well aware of where I did not want to go.

Hilary Joyces original deck was fixed in this method and believe me took some getting up it was the margin boards that had failed, the glued teak deck was good but very worn, it being over 30 years old.

Whatever method you choose, good luck.

 

[DaCostaGreene]

I don't want to seem as salesman as I have been accused, but have you thought of using Tek-Dek. We use shipwrights to build the decks and they could also advise you on the pitch pine question aswell. Click on my name and email me if your interested and I'll arrange for one of our fitters to call you.

 

[Seanick]

This works:
Fit a single layer of ply (say 15mm), (scarphed together, double lipped scarph), or two layers of ply(9mm), with staggered joins. Pre paint the ply underside before you fix it, so no painting over your head.
Sheath the ply with epoxy (not polyester) resin and woven rovings, about 200 g/msq. use peel ply to protect before......
Machine up your teak as thick as you can afford, and glue eack plank down with epoxy,or Sika's specific product, removing peel ply as required. Make sure you prep the underside of the teak properly for glueing. Hold in position with temporary screws (carefully positioned)/blocks/weights/cramps etc untill glue is dry, (about two planks per day). Don't fasten through your new teak!
With this method, when your seam rubber fails - which it will after 10+ years, it cannot get to your ply. Its easy on straight laid decks (as yours should be, being built at Crossfields), but can test your patience on a well swept deck.

Great thing about a ply deck on a boat of that age is that it takes all the loading of the lodging knees, reduces twisting and flexing and therefore leaking.
If this sounds to involved, just leave the teak off, paint sheathing with epoxy paint and non-slip and save loads of time and expense.

Refastening. Dont mix metals. She is probably fastened with iron dumps (fat nails). Your oak frames, whilst strong, won't appreciate additional dumps, however well drilled. Use galvanised steel screws of silmilar size. Easier to put in/take out, greater resistance to withdrawal, and no electrolytic action. Dip them in zinc grease, tallow or black tar varnish for extra preservation.
If you want to change to bronze screws, you must remove all traces of the iron fastenings. This usually does more damage than good.
If she is leaking when under sail then you should check your frame to futtock side bolts. Much more important.

Good luck, and enjoy!

 

[skipperscouse]

much obliged . sea nick. what is peel ply ?may now be using columbian pine on top of ply.

 

[olympicdado5]

I have a 1968 33 ft Chris Craft with plywood deck that was covered with vinyl, which is coming up. I'd like to paint the plywood. Any advice?

 

[Boatmik]

A plywood substrate to the deck will reduce the distorttions that occur when the boat wracks (twists) under sea loads, rig loads and keel loads.

Even the great American yacht designer Francis Herreshoff had a couple of good things to say about plywood for decks even though he personally hated plywood "stinkwood".

Here in the Antipodes traditional laid decks are very rare - maybe for a museum from time to time - wooden boats - from harbour racing 25ftrs throught to ocean cruisers will have ply decks with or without teak overlaid. It is by far the most standard practice.

With laid decks the structure deals with the loads by squeezing down on the caulking in some areas where there are compression loads (from the windard shroud through the deck to the mast) and it relaxes when the compression and twisting loads go away or reduce - same position on the leeside.

These cycles are OK when the caulking and timber are in good condition, but as they get older the caulking tends to compress more permanently and leaks open up.

This mechanism is not available to ply decks - so they will not start to leak from the above loads.

It is possible for there to be a problem with rot in plywood, but modern epoxy technology (not really all that modern now - since the early '60s) - has a good track record in preventing water ingress. Keep the moisture level down - and the timber can't rot.

The teak is then there for appearance partially, but because it is glued permanently and reliably to the ply will also make a good contribution to the strength of the deck.

When I say reliably tthink of all the Moodys, Beneteaus etc sitting in all the marinas in the world with nothing but glue holding the teak to the substrate (which is fibreglass in this case.)

There is a great little pamphlet put out by the WEST people (I have no commercial relationship with them at all - I mention it because it is a really cheap AUS$8 UK3? and useful resource.

"Wooden boat Restoration and Repair". A 40 or 50 page monograph that talks about the specifics.

General practice does stray from the above book in two areas.
1/ Most don't use the staples the book suggests.
2/ Most don't use the Graphite powder/ epoxy mix between the planks. They will use a polyurethane caulking compound like Sikaflex (Again I have no commercial affil.)

There are a couple of tricks to using sikaflex between planks to avoid two major pitfalls - but if these are followed this application has been found to be reliable in practice.

Information on applying caulking between teak planks laid over a substrate is at
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~storerm/Q&A/Sikaflexteakdeck.html

Best Regards
Michael Storer

 

[skipperscouse]

thanks boatmick.

incidentally , my mum was born in adelaide . my son also lives there and i'm coming over there this year sometime. want to see some boats while i,m there. i also intend to sail there in a couple of years.

regards pete

peterolga@hotmail.com

 

[Boatmik]

Hi Peter,

Get in contact with me when you make it down here and I will introduce you to some wooden boat people.

storerm@ozemail.com.au

Or if that has changed just look me up on the net. Google Michael Storer boat and you will find my website any time in the future with my current email address.

Best Regards
Michael