Removing Stanchions and Guardwires.

mjcoon

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I’ve always thought, if I ever do blue water sailing, I will have stanchions and guard wires made to above waist level - with a high cut Genoa to suit. One of my worst nightmares would be to fall in the middle of the Atlantic and watch your auto-piloted boat sailing off without you.
I read there are tech solutions to that nightmare. Dunno if any of them have endorsements from someone who has tried it for real...
 

LittleSister

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I read there are tech solutions to that nightmare. Dunno if any of them have endorsements from someone who has tried it for real...

I'm imagining a sort of horizontal equivalent of bungee-jumping, with Fred on the end of it hurtling back towards the boat when he reaches the end of his tether! :D
 

DownWest

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About four years ago, I was contacted via the CA to talk to an owner of a 30ft ferro vessel in Rochefort. Nice solid and well fitted boat, the normal stanchions were topped with a mahogony rail. This was in a rough state, so I swopped it for 40x20mm 316 tube., with chains for 'gates' each side secured with pelican hooks. Quite fun getting the changing curves right. The half height was wire and that stayed.
The general feel was very secure with rigid rails, unlike the average wire job. But, passing the shrouds was a tight fit on the narrow side decks and awkward inside with the cabin. Not much need to go forward with in mast furling and roller jib.
Boat had spent some years wandering around the med and was named after the navy term for a midshipman, which cause some comments:)
 
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DownWest

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Always thought that a gizmo on the jackstays that responded to a sudden jerk and disconnected the autopliot would be an idea. The idea of having fallen over and floundering about looking for the trailing line to disable the windvane is a bit chancy.
 

dunedin

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When I was young (50+ years ago) I sailed lots of miles, often singlehanded, on boats with no guardwires or stanchions. If I wanted to reef or change headsails I went forward. Didn't even carry a lifejacket, and of course electrics/electronics were limited to a torch and a transistor radio. I did very occasionally in unpleasant weather tie a bit of rope round my waist and the other end round the mast base. Thought I was being very safety conscious when I did that. Mostly I just held on.

I'm a rotten swimmer.....

These days I quite like guardwires etc, as well as lots of other stuff that simply didn't exist then.

So did the legendary sailor Eric Taberly, RIP. Lost overboard from the deck of his classic Pen Duick, when on deck without (I believe) lifelines, life jackets etc.
 

Keith 66

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A few years back my wife climbed back on board the boat after a convivial evening at a club barbecue, she caught her heel under the bottom guard rail wire & fell into the cockpit, her knee went across the genoa cleat & she got a tibial plateau fracture that took three months in plaster to fix. Much wine was involved!
Our boat a Sabre 27 has a cockpit layout that places the sheet winch right under the guardrail wires. Effectively this means that you cannot get a full revolution of the winch handle, With two speed winches a big problem. So i terminated the guardrail wires at the front of the cockpit, removing the cockpit section.
The cockpit is fairly deep & we dont miss them at all. It makes winching easier & getting into the dinghy with the dog far easier.
 

Daydream believer

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I'm imagining a sort of horizontal equivalent of bungee-jumping, with Fred on the end of it hurtling back towards the boat when he reaches the end of his tether! :D
About 5 years ago there was an Italian demonstrating a MOB system whereby a board was let out the back of the boat on a line.( about 30 metres away) The MOB laid on it looking forward & something was released ( possibly something like a large dustbin that dragged in the water ) & the board shot forward with The MOB on it. It went right up on to the pushpit & the MOB just stepped back on the boat.
I think that the bucket( or large drogue) dragged in the water as the boat went forward & a line through a pulley pulled the MOB towards the boat. I only saw one video & have not seen the system since
 

DownWest

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About 5 years ago there was an Italian demonstrating a MOB system whereby a board was let out the back of the boat on a line.( about 30 metres away) The MOB laid on it looking forward & something was released ( possibly something like a large dustbin that dragged in the water ) & the board shot forward with The MOB on it. It went right up on to the pushpit & the MOB just stepped back on the boat.
I think that the bucket( or large drogue) dragged in the water as the boat went forward & a line through a pulley pulled the MOB towards the boat. I only saw one video & have not seen the system since
One thinks that any number of things might go wrong with that..not to mention that how many people would even buy the kit? Then we were thinking of single handers?
 

Daydream believer

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One thinks that any number of things might go wrong with that..not to mention that how many people would even buy the kit? Then we were thinking of single handers?
Of course & it does not seem to have come to the market. However, others may have seen it & comment accordingly. With respect, whilst the thread has drifted a little the article was about stanchions , not single handing. So I do not feel that the subject is totally irrelevant, when falling overboard as a result of no guardrails being fitted
 

Stemar

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They are often in the way, or at least an irritating constraint, on the small boats I have owned (very narrow side decks, etc.) and inhibit quick steps onto the pontoon when single handed
Jissel, my Snapdragon 24, had the stanchions slightly bent inboard after 50 years of people tugging on them, so it was easier to put one foot outside the guard wires when going forward. I'm very happy to be able to say that I never had to test their ability to keep me on board!

On my Catalac, the guard wires stop about 2m before the stern, which simplifies getting on and off on end, and isn't a safety issue because you can reach everything aft of that without leaving the cockpit.
 

Wing Mark

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I've raced open boats with no guard rails a lot and been over the side a couple of times.
I think maybe if you've been standing in front the forestay of a keelboat heeling 30 degrees and waves coming over the deck, you can understand the merits of guard wires.

Some people will trip over them, but then some people just look like an accident waiting to happen whenever they're on a boat and not sat down holding on with both hands.
 

geem

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I've raced open boats with no guard rails a lot and been over the side a couple of times.
I think maybe if you've been standing in front the forestay of a keelboat heeling 30 degrees and waves coming over the deck, you can understand the merits of guard wires.

Some people will trip over them, but then some people just look like an accident waiting to happen whenever they're on a boat and not sat down holding on with both hands.
I am very much in favour of stout guard wires. It depends on the boat but if you sail any distance at all out of sheltered waters, I can't imagine not having them.
Ours stanchions are 800mm high solid aluminium, close centred and very robust. They will stop a heavy guy from going over the side. I pull myself up with the wires from out of the dinghy every day when at anchor. Towards the centre cockpit the wires change over to guardrails. Even more secure.
We keep the wires bar tight. The feel when you hold them going forward is reassuring. No wires wobbling about. We do not use a gate in our guardwires since I would detract from the tightness we achieve by having the wires securely fixed to pullpit and pushpit with bottlescrews
For me the guardwires are a primary safety system. Far better to stay on the boat than need rescue.
 

Mark-1

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I've raced open boats with no guard rails a lot and been over the side a couple of times.

...but how many times have you been saved from going over the side by guard wire?

I've fallen off a boat with guard wires, they made no difference to me whatsoever. Far more likely to dislocate my knee than stop me falling.

I think maybe if you've been standing in front the forestay of a keelboat heeling 30 degrees and waves coming over the deck, you can understand the merits of guard wires.

What for? To hang on to on the way back? The guard wires are the last thing I'd hang onto. In fact I'm sure I haven't ever touched guard wires in that situation. I *have* completely slipped and been saved by the toe rail when my feet connected with it. Without the toe rail I'd have been going under the guard wire at speed. Would I have grabbed the wire or got tangled in it enough to prevent me going in? I'll never know.

If the boat's heeling I'd have thought you'd go back along the windward side so you'd likely be falling away from the guard wires. If you went down the leeward side you'd be gripping handholds standing rigging like a mountaineer rather than looking to the guard wires to help.

But we're into conjecture here - I asked how many people had removed guard wires and I don't think enough people have to draw any conclusions from the thread.
 
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Mark-1

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I am very much in favour of stout guard wires. It depends on the boat but if you sail any distance at all out of sheltered waters, I can't imagine not having them.
Ours stanchions are 800mm high solid aluminium, close centred and very robust. They will stop a heavy guy from going over the side. I pull myself up with the wires from out of the dinghy every day when at anchor. Towards the centre cockpit the wires change over to guardrails. Even more secure.
We keep the wires bar tight. The feel when you hold them going forward is reassuring. No wires wobbling about. We do not use a gate in our guardwires since I would detract from the tightness we achieve by having the wires securely fixed to pullpit and pushpit with bottlescrews
For me the guardwires are a primary safety system. Far better to stay on the boat than need rescue.

Your guard wires sound impressive. Not sure how typical they are!
 

geem

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Your guard wires sound impressive. Not sure how typical they are!
On larger boats they can be typical. It may depend a little on the intended use. We reef at the mast so they are my security going forward until I get to the granny bars. They are also super strong and high?
 
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