SAWDOC
Active member
The other day, my seven year old removed the key from our Yanmar 2GM while we were motorsailing. Didn't have to use force and the key was later replaced. Any views on whether it causes any damage?
Removing key from engine when in use
- Thread starter SAWDOC
- Start date
billcole
Well-known member
I believe the only thing that causes damage is if you disconnect the alternator from all of the batteries whilst it is running, at which instant the inductance of the alternator coils produces a large voltage spike that destroys the diodes in the alternator rectifier.
I don't think the engine keyswitch will have done this unless your wiring is unconventional.
I don't think the engine keyswitch will have done this unless your wiring is unconventional.
gvh
New member
removing the key
Presumably it is a diesel engine,i dont know about removing the key on boats but an old trick of HGV truck drivers was to to turn the the ignition key to the off position so as to bybass the speed limiter for a short period of time. The only trouble was if it was done often enough it would eventually bu***r up the electric fuel pump. i would think that as it was only once no long term harm would be done but dont try it too often. imay be wrong ,usually am
Presumably it is a diesel engine,i dont know about removing the key on boats but an old trick of HGV truck drivers was to to turn the the ignition key to the off position so as to bybass the speed limiter for a short period of time. The only trouble was if it was done often enough it would eventually bu***r up the electric fuel pump. i would think that as it was only once no long term harm would be done but dont try it too often. imay be wrong ,usually am
seamaster30
New member
It's not clear from your post whether he turned the ignition off then remove the key or just pulled it out in the 'on' position.
If it was in the 'on' position then no damage will have been done - If it was in the off position, and your batteries are still getting charged, no damage was done.
VicS
Well-known member
No damage will have been caused.
The output from the alternator goes directly to the battery via the isolator switch.
The key switch supplies power to the panel. Tacho when fitted, warning lights, buzzer, panel light switch and the engine start push button.
See the workshop manual that can be downloaded from http://www.motoren.ath.cx/ for the wiring diagram, also attached I hope.
The output from the alternator goes directly to the battery via the isolator switch.
The key switch supplies power to the panel. Tacho when fitted, warning lights, buzzer, panel light switch and the engine start push button.
See the workshop manual that can be downloaded from http://www.motoren.ath.cx/ for the wiring diagram, also attached I hope.
richardm47
Member
Sawdoc wrote "The other day, my seven year old removed the key from our Yanmar 2GM while we were motorsailing."
Something similar happened to me. The other day, my fifty-seven year old removed half the key from our Volvo while we were not motoring.
Well, see we were sailing in a sunny F3 off Salcombe and suddenly there was this basking shark. There was a scramble among the crew to see it and the key got leant on by SWMBO. The key broke in half - and the other half was left in the lock.
Reactions were a picture: first she was horrified to think that we couldn't start the engine with a broken key. Then she cheered up as she remembered we'd brought the spare key. Then the awful thought dawned - the spare key was no use because half the old key was still buried in the ignition lock.
My mate's SWMBO performed 'keyhole surgery' in short order so we got into Salcombe ok. But the whole experience made me realise how vulnerable some boats are to such an accident. Imagine the shame of having to call the lifeboat because a piddling little key had broken. I hereby resolve to order a keyless push-button starter on a new control panel when we re-engine this winter. With an extra hidden isolator switch for security, I think.
Anyone done that?
Something similar happened to me. The other day, my fifty-seven year old removed half the key from our Volvo while we were not motoring.
Well, see we were sailing in a sunny F3 off Salcombe and suddenly there was this basking shark. There was a scramble among the crew to see it and the key got leant on by SWMBO. The key broke in half - and the other half was left in the lock.
Reactions were a picture: first she was horrified to think that we couldn't start the engine with a broken key. Then she cheered up as she remembered we'd brought the spare key. Then the awful thought dawned - the spare key was no use because half the old key was still buried in the ignition lock.
My mate's SWMBO performed 'keyhole surgery' in short order so we got into Salcombe ok. But the whole experience made me realise how vulnerable some boats are to such an accident. Imagine the shame of having to call the lifeboat because a piddling little key had broken. I hereby resolve to order a keyless push-button starter on a new control panel when we re-engine this winter. With an extra hidden isolator switch for security, I think.
Anyone done that?
Danny Jo
Active member
Much the same thoughts cross my mind.
Having the control panel in the companionway is problematic in many ways: the helm can't see the rev counter, the key gets knocked to the off position while the engine is running, and the key falls out on the port tack when the engine is not running.
The key, after all, is only for the sake of security - so why make it double as an on switch and a starter? What we need is (a) nice hidey hole for a key operated security switch that can stay on for as long as we are on the yacht - say at the aft end of the ...... cabinet in the ...... ; (b) an engine isolator switch (check) that activates the various low oil pressure/high temperature alarms; (c) a push button starter; (d) a push button stopper (check).
Hoolie
Well-known member
It's not really necessary as you can start a diesel by putting a screwdriver or steel bolt etc between the 12v on the starter motor and the solenoid connection, usually no more than 2cm apart on the starter motor. Had to do this a couple of times in emergency when the main panel was defunct.
richardm47
Member
For your (c) and (d) see here http://www.betamarine.co.uk/Templates/sea_going_accessories.html for Beta's no-key control panel, scroll down and find Optional type ABVW at bottom left. Three push buttons for Heat, Start and Stop. I think Volvo have a similar one. Probably both eye-watering cost.
I thought someone on here could probably tell us how to jump-start a diesel - anyone? Ah I see Hoolie's already done it - thanks.
I thought someone on here could probably tell us how to jump-start a diesel - anyone? Ah I see Hoolie's already done it - thanks.
SAWDOC
Active member
Allow me to elaborate on that part which was interesting.....
He pulled the key out without turning the switch back to the off position. Can't blame him - he was doing his best to be a useful crew member and had not been properly instructed in engine stop procedure.
When I went to restart the engine on the approach to our mooring, in the twilight with boats on all sides with good F4 behind us, I could not figure out why the key would not go into the switch. After a few fumbles in the gloom, I abandoned my effort to start the engine and concentrated instead on sailing on to the mooring - fortunately we had mainsail hoisted at the time. All went well, as it is a manouvre I practice often but it just highlighted to me how easily an incident can occur.
michael_w
Well-known member
Don't use your best screwdriver! I've melted a few doing this trick, there's a lot of power in the battery.
Moonshiners
New member
billcole
Well-known member
And keep your eyes out of the line of fire, hundreds of amps will flow and molten metal may spatter about
Hoolie
Well-known member
Not if you connect to the solenoid coil rather than the starter itself!
nickbailhache
New member
Hear, hear!
oldharry
Well-known member
Had the key break off in my old Sherpa (now thankfully dead!). Panic, as the spare was at home - 150 miles away!
Then a bright idea - half the key in the lock, the other half in my hand? I just wonder.... yes! Inserted broken key in the lock, and it worked perfectly. Drove for several weeks with a shortened igntion key until we could work out how to retrieve it!
Then a bright idea - half the key in the lock, the other half in my hand? I just wonder.... yes! Inserted broken key in the lock, and it worked perfectly. Drove for several weeks with a shortened igntion key until we could work out how to retrieve it!
Evadne
Active member
At the risk of stating the obvious, a keyswitch is just a switch operated by a key. If you turn it by whatever means (motorbike thieves hammer in a screwdriver and turn it using molegrips) or short out the terminals at the back then it will operate. If you don't turn it, it doesn't switch (on or off). It offers only minmal security on a boat.
VicS
Well-known member
In fact you would have to do that with a solenoid on a pre-engage starter motor. Just brdging the main terminals would only spin the motor without engaging the pinion.
Elessar
Well-known member
Yes.
I used a waterproof rocker. Press the top (it latches) to turn the "ignition" on. Press the bottom (it is momentary and therefore returns to the middle, off position) to turn the engine off. The advantage of this is you don't have to remember to turn the "ignition" off once you've stopped the engine.
A pushbutton immediately above the rocker is the starter.
And I have 2 side by side as I have twin engines, so it's very easy to start and stop both engines simultaneously with 1 hand.
Works really well, would do the same mod on any new boat.
clyst
Well-known member
"Imagine the shame of having to call the lifeboat because a piddling little key had broken ."
I hope you are joking !!!
