Remote monitoring: What sensors to use?

[TwoHooter]

Some forumites may remember the thread Continuous Cruising which ended when we bought a 10 year old 40' Nordhavn last September. Since then we have spent our boating time doing work on the boat and the next job is a remote monitoring system. I have installed a Huawei B315 WiFi SIM card router so connectivity isn't a problem so long as we are within range of a cellphone mast, and we don't plan to leave the boat anywhere which hasn't got that, at least not yet. The boat's computer probably needs to be replaced anyway, so I'll get something which suits the monitoring system when I know what that involves. Ditto software.

There have been several threads about this sort of thing, but they mostly deal with processing and connectivity. What I want to know at this stage is what do we need to monitor? I'd be really grateful if anyone who already has remote monitoring could tell me what they think is essential, and what isn't. For example, cameras. Sitting here at my desk the idea of having cameras I can monitor is appealing, but do I really need them, and if so where in the boat should they be? Someone who already has cameras watching their boat will know if they are genuinely worth having, and if so which ones are the most useful. The same goes for other things. Bilge pumps always seem to be on the list, but has a bilge pump sensor ever saved a boat or is it just "nice to have"?

So if you have a remote monitoring system, and were now designing a new one from scratch, what sensors would you have, based on your experience?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Some forumites may remember the thread Continuous Cruising which ended when we bought a 10 year old 40' Nordhavn last September. Since then we have spent our boating time doing work on the boat and the next job is a remote monitoring system. I have installed a Huawei B315 WiFi SIM card router so connectivity isn't a problem so long as we are within range of a cellphone mast, and we don't plan to leave the boat anywhere which hasn't got that, at least not yet. The boat's computer probably needs to be replaced anyway, so I'll get something which suits the monitoring system when I know what that involves. Ditto software.

There have been several threads about this sort of thing, but they mostly deal with processing and connectivity. What I want to know at this stage is what do we need to monitor? I'd be really grateful if anyone who already has remote monitoring could tell me what they think is essential, and what isn't. For example, cameras. Sitting here at my desk the idea of having cameras I can monitor is appealing, but do I really need them, and if so where in the boat should they be? Someone who already has cameras watching their boat will know if they are genuinely worth having, and if so which ones are the most useful. The same goes for other things. Bilge pumps always seem to be on the list, but has a bilge pump sensor ever saved a boat or is it just "nice to have"?

So if you have a remote monitoring system, and were now designing a new one from scratch, what sensors would you have, based on your experience?

All I monitor is the shorepower, because that looks after the charger, the fridges and the aircon, and the batteries in turn look after the bilge pumps. I've had the same monitoring system for eight years now, very straightforward, and very helpful.

 

[rafiki_]

I would be tempted to monitor a smoke alarm, as it is not unheard of for a dehumidifier to self-combust. Not sure yet how to do this yet, but have some very bright young things at work to bounce off.

 

[TwoHooter]

All I monitor is the shorepower, because that looks after the charger, the fridges and the aircon, and the batteries in turn look after the bilge pumps. I've had the same monitoring system for eight years now, very straightforward, and very helpful.

Definitely on the list. We had our first-ever power cut at the current marina a few weeks ago (or rather the first I have ever known about) but fortunately we were on board. Our house batteries are an expensive item and the boat is loaded with parasitic power drains. What monitoring kit do you use?

I would be tempted to monitor a smoke alarm, as it is not unheard of for a dehumidifier to self-combust. Not sure yet how to do this yet, but have some very bright young things at work to bounce off.

Always nice to have my prejudices confirmed! When we bought the boat it didn't have a single fire alarm except for the SeaFire system in the engine room. It now has 4 smoke detectors, 2 CO detectors, and an additional combined smoke/CO detector ready to go in the Lazarette (where our batteries and Webasto diesel heater live). But all the alarms are stand-alone battery-operated at the moment; I want to install a comprehensive alarm system which presumably can then be monitored remotely. BTW I don't run the dehumidifier when we are not on board - just one risk too many in my view.

Still want to know whether anyone monitors cameras remotely - is this worthwhile?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Definitely on the list. We had our first-ever power cut at the current marina a few weeks ago (or rather the first I have ever known about) but fortunately we were on board. Our house batteries are an expensive item and the boat is loaded with parasitic power drains. What monitoring kit do you use?

There are lots of simple, modern solutions to this - I just use a gsm relay box that I've had for years, powered by the batteries and with a mains relay that closes when power fails. Closing the contacts triggers an alarm which sends a text. Has been working very nicely since 2008...!

Always nice to have my prejudices confirmed! When we bought the boat it didn't have a single fire alarm except for the SeaFire system in the engine room. It now has 4 smoke detectors, 2 CO detectors, and an additional combined smoke/CO detector ready to go in the Lazarette (where our batteries and Webasto diesel heater live). But all the alarms are stand-alone battery-operated at the moment; I want to install a comprehensive alarm system which presumably can then be monitored remotely. BTW I don't run the dehumidifier when we are not on board - just one risk too many in my view.

Still want to know whether anyone monitors cameras remotely - is this worthwhile?

For dehumidification, I use the aircon rather than a standalone device. I believe that Bartw has remote cameras.

 

[adey]

Lots of GSM alarms on eBay for about £50 that will text you if there's a shore power cut. Also a wide range of wireless sensors to go with them. Some even have cameras. Just change the batteries in the sensors every year. Job done.

 

[TwoHooter]

There are lots of simple, modern solutions to this - I just use a gsm relay box that I've had for years, powered by the batteries and with a mains relay that closes when power fails. Closing the contacts triggers an alarm which sends a text. Has been working very nicely since 2008...!

Just searched for GSM relay, didn't realise these relay boxes were so easy to find and so cheap - Thanks!

For dehumidification, I use the aircon rather than a standalone device.

But your boat's in the Med isn't it? Can't see that working for us in Chichester in January, boat's cold enough as it is! OTOH am I missing something? We have 3 of these (Vector Air) http://marine.dometicgroup.com/en/marine_air_self-contained_ac.php

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Just searched for GSM relay, didn't realise these relay boxes were so easy to find and so cheap - Thanks!

But your boat's in the Med isn't it? Can't see that working for us in Chichester in January, boat's cold enough as it is! OTOH am I missing something? We have 3 of these (Vector Air) http://marine.dometicgroup.com/en/marine_air_self-contained_ac.php

I think that's the same as I've got. Mine has a dehumidifier setting which iirc runs for three hours in every 24. I don't know if water temperature affects the dehum function, I guess I would have assumed not because there's no heating or cooling going on, best people to ask would be an installer (I used Seacraft Marine in Poole).

 

[TwoHooter]

I think that's the same as I've got. Mine has a dehumidifier setting which iirc runs for three hours in every 24. I don't know if water temperature affects the dehum function, I guess I would have assumed not because there's no heating or cooling going on, best people to ask would be an installer (I used Seacraft Marine in Poole).

Thanks, it's not in the manual but I will find out whether we have that feature.

OK, end of dehumidifier thread drift, back to sensors......

 

[jfm]

I monitor shore power, battery volts, door opening, bilge level, fire and geofence via GSM

For fire I have and would recommend a sea fire zoned system. 12 smoke or heat detectors wired to central black box and custom printed display panel telling you which sensor has triggered. I have sensors on cabin ceilings as usual and in places with hot or high current machines eg behind the tumble drier and in the air con chiller compartment. I have heat sensors in galley so the thing does not alarm when you make toast. Easy to check system now and again with hair drier for the heat detectors and a just-gone-out candle for the smoke detectors, an obsessive routine of mine every couple of months and before a busy cruise. The sea fire black box has a relay output that tells the GSM relay box to text me with a customisable message. All circuit diagrams and sensor details and locations, specific to my boat, were neatly created on a CAD package by the main seafire dealer in s coast uk.

GSM relay box is yacht sentinel

I don't bother with cameras because have a full time crew person even though winter

Jimmy afaik the air con does run the compressor in dehumid mode. I think it creates a cold surface for the moisture in the air to condense onto, then that condensate lands in drip tray then into sump then pumped overboard. I think. Obviously in cold sea this doesn't require the system to run particularly hard

 

[TwoHooter]

@jfm - thanks, that's really helpful. I am already in touch with Sea Fire (our engine room bottle is 10 years old and supposedly needs to be sent away for pressure testing) so I'll ask about the system you describe.

I'll dig deeper into our aircon system too.

Still interested in cameras if anyone does have them.

 

[BartW]

Still interested in cameras if anyone does have them.

On our boat we have a small LAN network that is permanently connected with internet,
in the marina is good wifi, but our router can also go online via a sim card

On the quay I have installed a wifi camera connected to the onboard wifi network. It takes power from our shore connection.
the router company “ Locomarine” offers a cloud service, and via that service you can look at any device connected to the network;
the camera but also the plotter, alarm systems , etc,

we recently upgraded the camera to a better device from Hikvision (wider lens opening angle)
after installation we realized this brand offers foc acces to a web server where you can see the images from their camera’s,
so actually we don’t need the cloud service anymore for this (unless for access to other devices on the network, and remotely changing settings on the camera)

here is a screenshot from my IPhone, taken just a few minutes ago.

To be honest the camera is more a gadget, but I must confess that I look almost daily at that camera ;-)
Apart from the visual check, it allows me to look if and when people are working on the boat.

For general monitoring or alarm, I confirm that a device like a “Yacht Sentinel” is perfect for that application,
At the time I looked at the Sentinel, but bought something similar from Holland, don’t remember the brand.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

On our boat we have a small LAN network that is permanently connected with internet,
in the marina is good wifi, but our router can also go online via a sim card

On the quay I have installed a wifi camera connected to the onboard wifi network. It takes power from our shore connection.
the router company “ Locomarine” offers a cloud service, and via that service you can look at any device connected to the network;
the camera but also the plotter, alarm systems , etc,

we recently upgraded the camera to a better device from Hikvision (wider lens opening angle)
after installation we realized this brand offers foc acces to a web server where you can see the images from their camera’s,
so actually we don’t need the cloud service anymore for this (unless for access to other devices on the network, and remotely changing settings on the camera)

here is a screenshot from my IPhone, taken just a few minutes ago.

To be honest the camera is more a gadget, but I must confess that I look almost daily at that camera ;-)
Apart from the visual check, it allows me to look if and when people are working on the boat.

For general monitoring or alarm, I confirm that a device like a “Yacht Sentinel” is perfect for that application,
At the time I looked at the Sentinel, but bought something similar from Holland, don’t remember the brand.

What are the two flying saucers hovering over the port?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

@jfm - thanks, that's really helpful. I am already in touch with Sea Fire (our engine room bottle is 10 years old and supposedly needs to be sent away for pressure testing) so I'll ask about the system you describe.

I'll dig deeper into our aircon system too.

Still interested in cameras if anyone does have them.

Bit OT sorry but I just used Sea-fire for the same 10 year service of the big extinguisher bottle in the engine room, all very helpful and cf the cost of a new one, good value.

 

[BartW]

What are the two flying saucers hovering over the port?

good spotting,

the camera is mounted just below a marina wifi antenna,
you see the bottom end of two antenna's,
I didn't bother lowering the camera, its quite a faff with a ladder and all that,

here on this pic you can see that pole with antenna,
the sharp eye observer can see that at that time, our camera was on top of that pole,
even more difficult to reach

 

[jfm]

@jfm - thanks, that's really helpful. I am already in touch with Sea Fire (our engine room bottle is 10 years old and supposedly needs to be sent away for pressure testing) so I'll ask about the system you describe.

I'll dig deeper into our aircon system too.

Still interested in cameras if anyone does have them.

Tech info on the sea-fire system is here http://sea-fire.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/FireStop-FCP-Sales-Brochure.pdf

I have one "Zone identification panel" aka "Detection system panel", and they print the names of the zones to customer spec, so when the alarm sounds the zone indicator lights up telling you exactly where the problem is. I was paranoid about having a fire in say the laundry zone (aft crew utility area) while motoring along, and this tells me fast so I can deal with the fire immediately, which is better than discovering it when the fire has got hold of the boat. I have several of the 131/510 panels around the boat (both helms, by my bed, by crew bed, etc) and hooters. The detectors are the Hochiko ones, which Fairline manged to install very neatly (slightly recessed, but not beypnd the allowable recess amount)

The 151-500 main computer box has "alarm activated" outputs that you can connect to your GSM device or anything you want.

The armoured cable is stiff but it was all fitted in build. If you are tretrofitting this the hardest job by far (as ever) is running this cable to the detectors. You could use un armoured cable of course. The rest is plug and play cat 5 cabling and a couple of 24v power inputs.

In 3 seasons of use I've had zero false alarms that I can blame on this equipment. It is excellent, and the support when installing/designing was excellent (helpful, fast email support from team who knew their stuff)

Well worth it imho in a boat big enough that you could be some distance from the source of a fire

 

[MapisM]

here is a screenshot from my IPhone

Kanne? Didn't you use to fly a red duster?

 

[Trundlebug]

I have a GSM alarm bought via ebay for around £50 a few years ago; it's been invaluable and very reliable, well worth several times the investment cost.
It monitors power, bilge pumps, door, movement and is configurable to send text and make direct calls.
It also alarms of course with a blood curdling shriek and allows listening in and talk back facility.

I already had a Blige Watch 8 which was already monitoring the bilge pumps, so an easy step to link to the GSM to text me if and when a pump operates. The BW8 records for how long each pump operates.
The alarm I bought also came with a wireless smoke detector.

I did consider cameras, but I thought the only time I would need one would be in the event of a break in when it should either take a photo, message it or video any movement. I haven't added it yet as I'm happy with it as it is but in an ideal world I would fit a PIR activated camera to send an MMS.

I think webcam is overkill, if there's anything amiss I would be notified via one of the other alarm sensors anyway. A webcam needs permanent 24/7 wifi and router / server running which seems a bit pointless when every time you look there's nothing to see. Nice to impress your mates down the pub etc but in terms of practical use quite limited. In my circumstances anyway. I guess it's down to your own situation. If you're in an exposed spot and want to see how much the boat moves around in a storm, or is still securely tied up, or in a marina where people might get on and wander around the decks then it would be more easily justified.

My advice would be, define a specification of what you consider essential to give you peace of mind, and go with that. Then compare your spec with what's available at a price you're prepared to pay.

Edit: Forgot to add, a friend of mine can remotely monitor the temperature in his engine bay; quite a useful feature this time of year.

 

[BartW]

Kanne? Didn't you use to fly a red duster?

With the UK commercial registration, we could not start a charter contract in Croatia, unless one does there a VAT declaration, and administration, etc...
Practical result was that I could'nt change guests in Croatia. Each departure with new guests had to take place in Tivat. (outside europe)
So winter last year we changed back to Belgium non commercial registration. Now we can change guests as much as we like in HR / europe

 

[MapisM]

Aha, understood. With apologies to 2H for the o/t...