REMINDER! This is happening right now! Lifejackets - Useless unless worn. RNLI Q&A
- Thread starter danfoley
- Start date
lw395
Well-known member
And about a million died in other ways.
Shorn100
New member
Really? Could you give me an example where this kind of thing has happened?
Also I would suggest forumites not to use insulting terms about people they do not know - it may be considered libelous since the events in Dartmouth did not happen the way they were described in the thread.
Ubergeekian
New member
Are you calling the poster in that thread a liar?
Shorn100
New member
No, not at all. And I don't want to open old threads but it would be good if the more balanced view was seen based on a fair representation of what happened. Clearly, since nobody else said that this had happened to them in the way described makes it clear that it is not common practice for the RNLI or the RNLI representative who was slated in the thread. I recognised the person because I know he's the RNLI advice expert for Dartmouth and that he does go out and talk to people, which is why I asked him about it.
However, the poster's interpretation of the situation and the language he used in his post was set to provide a response from forumites. Somebody coming up and simply asking 'Have you considered wearing a lifejacket' in a fairly gentle way does not in my interpretation equate to being accosted or being agressive. Nor does it fit the description of 'little Hitler' or any of the other character assasinating phrases used in the thread - many of which were, arguably, libellous - I'm surprised that the form moderators did not delete them.
I promised him that I wouldn't waste my time pursuing this so I will not say anymore about this matter. But, it was such a gross misjustice to his character, I have found it impossible to stay completely quiet.
However, the poster's interpretation of the situation and the language he used in his post was set to provide a response from forumites. Somebody coming up and simply asking 'Have you considered wearing a lifejacket' in a fairly gentle way does not in my interpretation equate to being accosted or being agressive. Nor does it fit the description of 'little Hitler' or any of the other character assasinating phrases used in the thread - many of which were, arguably, libellous - I'm surprised that the form moderators did not delete them.
I promised him that I wouldn't waste my time pursuing this so I will not say anymore about this matter. But, it was such a gross misjustice to his character, I have found it impossible to stay completely quiet.
Ubergeekian
New member
Didn't other people say that he had a bit of a reputation already for behaving in that way?
Of course there are two sides of the story, though, and it may well be that he didn't mean to come across as he did. This is probably not the place to discuss that particular incident, but it does show that what one party sees as well-meaning and helpful advice may come across to the other side as heavy-handed bossiness ... and that is really the central issue here, isn't it?
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Allan
Well-known member
I have not had the time to read all the questions here, so I apologise if this has been covered before.
Are the RNLI lobbying lifejacket manufacturers and suppliers to ensure all lifejackets are supplied with crutch straps? When my lifejacket had gone out of date I jumped in to see what it was like. The first time I did not have crutch straps and it rode up, so much so that I could not use my arms! Had I been unconscious I could have slipped out! The second time I had fitted crutch straps and it stayed in place, which would have kept me alive if unconscious. I had to take it off to swim back to the boat.
If, as stated before on here, the "useless unless worn" campaign is aimed at new sailors, they should be warned that they are useless unless worn with crutch straps.
Allan
PS. I clip-on as I sail single handed and there is nobody to come back and get me!
Are the RNLI lobbying lifejacket manufacturers and suppliers to ensure all lifejackets are supplied with crutch straps? When my lifejacket had gone out of date I jumped in to see what it was like. The first time I did not have crutch straps and it rode up, so much so that I could not use my arms! Had I been unconscious I could have slipped out! The second time I had fitted crutch straps and it stayed in place, which would have kept me alive if unconscious. I had to take it off to swim back to the boat.
If, as stated before on here, the "useless unless worn" campaign is aimed at new sailors, they should be warned that they are useless unless worn with crutch straps.
Allan
PS. I clip-on as I sail single handed and there is nobody to come back and get me!
boomerangben
Well-known member
Sorry Allan can't resist.......
I can imagine how impossible it must be to swim with all those NHS crutches strapped to your lifejacket.
But I know what you meant.
I can imagine how impossible it must be to swim with all those NHS crutches strapped to your lifejacket.
But I know what you meant.
danfoley
New member
Join the chat today and you can ask that very question! It'll be happening here 12:00-12:30 : Lifejackets - usless unless worn
KellysEye
Active member
>For most users of larger craft a lifeline, shortish harness and good jackstays are far safer as you won't drown if you're not in the water and finding someone at the end of a 2m lifeline is very easy. Finding someone who went overboard sometime whilst they were alone on watch in the previous 4 hours is somewhat harder.
I agree. We always clipped on at night and in bad weather and often for sail changes. We viewed lifejackets as something you put on before getting into the liferaft. Obviously they were stored for easy and quick access.
I agree. We always clipped on at night and in bad weather and often for sail changes. We viewed lifejackets as something you put on before getting into the liferaft. Obviously they were stored for easy and quick access.
jordanbasset
Well-known member
I actually have no problem with the RYA Campaign but it does pale a little in comparison when looking at other more preventable deaths, for example -
It has been estimated that domestic exposure to secondhand smoke in the UK causes around 10,700 deaths, perhaps not smoking on boats or on the way to boats in cars would save more lives....
taking cover
dk
Well-known member
I'm a bit late coming to this debate due to not having the time to scuttle at this time of year, but i'd like to interject with something that has not been raised in any of the posts that i've so far managed to read on the subject.
Last year we carried out a trial of brand-new LJs with a guy donning them, complete with crutch straps, and falling into a swimming pool. They all worked fine and did the job as they should. However, when we then togged the guy up in full wet weather gear, soaked it (to simulate a stormy, wet night at sea) and then let him fall face first into the water (to simulate being knocked unconscious by the boom on the back of the head), many of the LJs (standard 150newton jobbies) did not have the ability to turn him over onto his back! - Just like to point out here that he was a slightly built chap of around 12st max - nothing like me!
Uselss when worn with wet oilies?
I think some of the manufacturers have since made a few mods, but not many.
Personally i prefer to stay clipped on, but do wear an LJ in a dinghy and when i judge it to be sensible on the boat (fog etc).
Last year we carried out a trial of brand-new LJs with a guy donning them, complete with crutch straps, and falling into a swimming pool. They all worked fine and did the job as they should. However, when we then togged the guy up in full wet weather gear, soaked it (to simulate a stormy, wet night at sea) and then let him fall face first into the water (to simulate being knocked unconscious by the boom on the back of the head), many of the LJs (standard 150newton jobbies) did not have the ability to turn him over onto his back! - Just like to point out here that he was a slightly built chap of around 12st max - nothing like me!
Uselss when worn with wet oilies?
I think some of the manufacturers have since made a few mods, but not many.
Personally i prefer to stay clipped on, but do wear an LJ in a dinghy and when i judge it to be sensible on the boat (fog etc).
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prv
Well-known member
Regular PAT testing in offices. The HSE do not require it, a "visual inspection" by the user, with no special education, is all that is required for ordinary electrical equipment in offices. And yet there is a whole industry of semi-trained people plugging computers and lamps into machines that go ping, because "elfin safety says you have to".
Same applies to plenty of other "H&S" stuff in normal surroundings (their good work in genuinely dangerous environments like mines and foundries notwithstanding). They have a whole section of their website dedicated to debunking "myths" where some lightweight advice of theirs has been transformed into rigid and inappropriate rules and procedures. I think that's a pretty good parallel with the RNLI's "maybe you should think about wearing a lifejacket" being turned into "Based on the expert position of the RNLI, it will now be compulsory to..."
Pete
longjohnsilver
Well-known member
As the OP in question I have just re-read my original post and can't see how you consider my language being set to produce a response from others. All I was actually aiming to do was ask the question as to whether others had been questioned by the RNLI about not wearing LJs. You do seem to be on a bit of a mission to make me appear as a trouble maker when in reality nothing could be further from the truth. I have a great deal of respect for all RNLI volunteers, they do a fantastic job. I'm pretty sure I made that point in that same thread.
FishyInverness
New member
To be completely fair, that's pretty much what I would expect from a 150n Lifejacket, and it's down to selecting the right equipment for the job and conditions - if you read the RNLI's advice on Lifejackets, it very clearly states that for commercial users or those wearing heavy clothing, tools or buoyant clothing, a 275n lifejacket is heavily recommended, as the 275n jacket has been designed specifically for this purpose, to counteract trapped air/weight/buoyancy in clothing that would prevent the turning process.