Registration No!? Help

[L&K_Broom 30]

Hello everyone,

Sorry to appear dim, I'm completely new to boating having purchased our pride and joy in April 21. In terms of the vessels registration number (not currently displayed on the boat), I'm looking for some help in identifying this. We do hold a valid BSS which states a BW/EA Registration No: N31** however this expired 2018. There is also a hull number included starting LON ****/75 - could this be the reg number by any chance?? Thank you in advance. Kind regards K & L

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Hello everyone,

Sorry to appear dim, I'm completely new to boating having purchased our pride and joy in April 21. In terms of the vessels registration number (not currently displayed on the boat), I'm looking for some help in identifying this. We do hold a valid BSS which states a BW/EA Registration No: N31** however this expired 2018. There is also a hull number included starting LON ****/75 - could this be the reg number by any chance?? Thank you in advance. Kind regards K & L

There's a big difference between sea-going vessels and fresh-water vessels. In the latter case, I guess it's your BW/EA number; I am not familiar with the waterways systems, but that seems most likely.
Sea-going vessels may not have a registration number, it isn't essential except when going overseas (and many people would say not even then, but foreign officials tend to expect it). However, there are two forms of registration: Part 1 registration, which is a heavyweight thing that requires a special survey and cast-iron proof of ownership. It is usually required in the event of the boat being bought with a marine mortgage; in that case, there will be a carved plaque on a main structural member of the boat with "ON 123456"; the number is the register number. Then there is Part 3 registration, the Small Ships Register (SSR). This is much simpler and does not require a survey and only "normal" (i.e. bill-of-sale) proof of ownership. This is the commonest, and most vessels that expect to travel overseas have it, as it is straightforward and cheap to obtain. Both have different restrictions of the nationality and/or nature of the owner; I think Part 3 is only available for personal owners, who must be UK citizens and normally resident in the UK (I think that's right; it's pretty close if I haven't got all the details). SSR should be displayed on the cabin side in the form "SSR 123456"

Finally, there's the Hull Identification Number (HIN). This is NOT a form of registration, but in boats younger than some date in the 1990s, it should be a unique number identifying the particular vessel. It will be moulded into the hull somewhere. However, boats earlier than the date when it was adopted won't have one or may have a number that was allocated by the builder as part of their control systems, but which is neither unique nor allocated by any registration body.

 

[Dellquay13]

Hello everyone,

Sorry to appear dim, I'm completely new to boating having purchased our pride and joy in April 21. In terms of the vessels registration number (not currently displayed on the boat), I'm looking for some help in identifying this. We do hold a valid BSS which states a BW/EA Registration No: N31** however this expired 2018. There is also a hull number included starting LON ****/75 - could this be the reg number by any chance?? Thank you in advance. Kind regards K & L

edit: Antarctic beat me to it...

not all UK pleasure boats are registered, as there is no legal requirement to do so. There are a couple of notable registration schemes which include the Inland Waterways one (related to the BSS?), and the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency ships register pt1 and the UK MCA small ships register (SSR number).
Your boat may not be registered on the UK MCA pt1 or SSR, without any issues, unless you are leaving UK waters.
Insurers, marinas and others may ask you for your reg no., but if you don't have one, there should be no problem.
The number starting LON is most likely the Hull Identification Number HIN and is an international identifier for the boat manufacturer and build serial number.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

tonnage is carved in not official number.

 

[L&K_Broom 30]

There's a big difference between sea-going vessels and fresh-water vessels. In the latter case, I guess it's your BW/EA number; I am not familiar with the waterways systems, but that seems most likely.
Sea-going vessels may not have a registration number, it isn't essential except when going overseas (and many people would say not even then, but foreign officials tend to expect it). However, there are two forms of registration: Part 1 registration, which is a heavyweight thing that requires a special survey and cast-iron proof of ownership. It is usually required in the event of the boat being bought with a marine mortgage; in that case, there will be a carved plaque on a main structural member of the boat with "ON 123456"; the number is the register number. Then there is Part 3 registration, the Small Ships Register (SSR). This is much simpler and does not require a survey and only "normal" (i.e. bill-of-sale) proof of ownership. This is the commonest, and most vessels that expect to travel overseas have it, as it is straightforward and cheap to obtain. Both have different restrictions of the nationality and/or nature of the owner; I think Part 3 is only available for personal owners, who must be UK citizens and normally resident in the UK (I think that's right; it's pretty close if I haven't got all the details). SSR should be displayed on the cabin side in the form "SSR 123456"

Finally, there's the Hull Identification Number (HIN). This is NOT a form of registration, but in boats younger than some date in the 1990s, it should be a unique number identifying the particular vessel. It will be moulded into the hull somewhere. However, boats earlier than the date when it was adopted won't have one or may have a number that was allocated by the builder as part of their control systems, but which is neither unique nor allocated by any registration body.

Wonderful - thank you sooooo much. This makes alot more sense, having read various posts on other threads/sites. Kind regards K & L

 

[L&K_Broom 30]

edit: Antarctic beat me to it...

not all UK pleasure boats are registered, as there is no legal requirement to do so. There are a couple of notable registration schemes which include the Inland Waterways one (related to the BSS?), and the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency ships register pt1 and the UK MCA small ships register (SSR number).
Your boat may not be registered on the UK MCA pt1 or SSR, without any issues, unless you are leaving UK waters.
Insurers, marinas and others may ask you for your reg no., but if you don't have one, there should be no problem.
The number starting LON is most likely the Hull Identification Number HIN and is an international identifier for the boat manufacturer and build serial number.

Wonderful - thank you so much for your time and attention. Kind regards, K & L

 

[AntarcticPilot]

tonnage is carved in not official number.

On the only part 1 registered boat I had intimate knowledge of (my dad's!) it was the registration number - the "ON" at the beginning is a bit of a clue!

 

[pyrojames]

On the only part 1 registered boat I had intimate knowledge of (my dad's!) it was the registration number - the "ON" at the beginning is a bit of a clue!

Both my boats had/have ON and RT carved in in the main beam. Any other ones I have seen which weren't mine, both were also carved in.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Both my boats had/have ON and RT carved in in the main beam. Any other ones I have seen which weren't mine, both were also carved in.

It's entirely possible the RT was also carved on the plaque - I happen to remember the "ON" bit because it took me ages to realize that it simply means "on"! I was looking for it to be some arcane code....

On my Dad's GRP Halcyon 27, the plaque was screwed onto a bulkhead with cross-head screws, and the cross drilled out so they couldn't be unscrewed. I guess that these days they'd use security screws, but they weren't in common use in those days.

 

[jamie N]

On my 1960's, East German Folkboat, there's not a single marking from the builder on the whole boat, and believe me, I've looked ALL over it!
Having only had 2 'yachts', neither of which were marked, is that common, or unusual or nothing worthy of note?

 

[Tranona]

Nothing worthy of note for older boats, although many builders were proud to put plates somewhere, others identified by build number, yard number or sail number. only in the 1980s did some sort of codified system start to emerge, but did not become compulsory in the EU until 1997.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

On the only part 1 registered boat I had intimate knowledge of (my dad's!) it was the registration number - the "ON" at the beginning is a bit of a clue!

Yep I stand corrected having checked my own boat ???

 

[L&K_Broom 30]

Nothing worthy of note for older boats, although many builders were proud to put plates somewhere, others identified by build number, yard number or sail number. only in the 1980s did some sort of codified system start to emerge, but did not become compulsory in the EU until 1997.

Thank you so much. We do have a plate displaying a build number. Kind regards.

 

[NorthRising]

On my 1960's, East German Folkboat, there's not a single marking from the builder on the whole boat, and believe me, I've looked ALL over it!
Having only had 2 'yachts', neither of which were marked, is that common, or unusual or nothing worthy of note?

I can't find the hull number on my 1982 built lift keel Hunter Sonata, despite having an in detail examination.

 

[Tranona]

That is probably because it does not have one! best contact here

sonata.org.uk

 

[NorthRising]

That is probably because it does not have one! best contact here

sonata.org.uk

Oh I have looked on there, they were apparently penciled onto the inside of the transom, but not apparently on mine.

 

[Tranona]

Perhaps the pencil marks have washed away or been erased.

Seriously there was no compulsion to identify boats in a permanent way when your boat was built. Those builders that did often used their own system. However with a class like the Sonata I would have thought there was a formal system of sail numbers which probably was not directly connected with the sequence of hull builds.

 

[Bilgediver]

Hello everyone,

Sorry to appear dim, I'm completely new to boating having purchased our pride and joy in April 21. In terms of the vessels registration number (not currently displayed on the boat), I'm looking for some help in identifying this. We do hold a valid BSS which states a BW/EA Registration No: N31** however this expired 2018. There is also a hull number included starting LON ****/75 - could this be the reg number by any chance?? Thank you in advance. Kind regards K & L

All the references you quote seem to relate to inland waterways. Are you going to operate your boat on canals and rivers or the sea? If operating in canals then the you need to comply with the relevant rules and apply for the relevant licence which I believe is renewed annually and must display the BW/EA Number on both sides of the cabin . I f opening at sea the BSS is not required and neither is BW licence. However if your boat was never registered as sea going previously then it probably does not have an official number.

 

[NorthRising]

Perhaps the pencil marks have washed away or been erased.

Seriously there was no compulsion to identify boats in a permanent way when your boat was built. Those builders that did often used their own system. However with a class like the Sonata I would have thought there was a formal system of sail numbers which probably was not directly connected with the sequence of hull builds.

On the One Design Sonatas yes sail numbers are Class Association allocated; not apparently on the lift keel variant. Mine arrived with a sail number issued by the RNCYC of which I am not a member and am not entitled to use. I invented my own Sail number.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

On the One Design Sonatas yes sail numbers are Class Association allocated; not apparently on the lift keel variant. Mine arrived with a sail number issued by the RNCYC of which I am not a member and am not entitled to use. I invented my own Sail number.

My understanding is that a sail number, once issued, belongs to the boat, not the owner. My own was issued by CYCA, and is still valid for her even though I have no connection with CYCA.