Registration evasion

boatone

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 Jul 2001
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Just a few cables from Boulters Lock
www.tmba.org.uk
The following is an extract from an EA update I received just before Xmas. The message is quite stark and clearly things have to change.
In the years I have been dealing with the EA this is by far the strongest message I have seen them publish. There is no doubt that they are genuinely shocked by these figures.

QUOTE
"Earlier this month, we carried out our second Flag Day focussed on boat registration avoidance, the first being in September. As you will be aware, Flag Days are when we deploy as many of our officers as possible, as widely as possible, to focus on a particular issue or provide advice and guidance to boaters on a particular topic. Lock staff and volunteers also get involved, as do office staff – depending on the issue or topic in question. These Flag Days are popular with staff, with our boating customers and, more importantly, are effective. Across the two boat registration enforcement Flag Days, we served enforcement notices against owners of 161 boats. We estimate this has potentially protected around £120,000 of income.
Whilst this is an excellent result, what is disappointing is the 161 notices were served as a result of 815 boats being checked – giving an overall evasion rate of 20%.
This rate was pushed up by a higher than expected evasion rate amongst boats kept in marinas. We feel this is unacceptable. We expect all marina operators to work with us to ensure evasion amongst their customers is minimal, and we think it is entirely reasonable for us to expect that in marinas, the evasion rate will be far less than the average for the rest of the river. Clearly, it is not, and that’s not good enough.

What is particularly galling is that so many of the unregistered boats in marinas were sizeable and very well kept. We often receive complaints from people about shabby boats which they assume must be unregistered simply because of the way they look. In the vast majority of cases, these boats are found to be fully compliant. What we found in these marinas was the polar opposite of that scenario - costly, lovingly maintained boats …but unregistered. Perhaps we all need to direct our gaze, and opprobrium, in a new direction."
UNQUOTE

Given the publicity surrounding the court cases clarifying the situation re boats moored in marinas needing to pay registration, one would have hoped that the situation would have improved but, at least in some marinas, this is clearly not the case.

Have you paid for 2018 yet ? More importantly, perhaps, how many have not paid for 2017 but remain undetected?
 
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Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a look ?

Nothing stated above suprises me one tiny little bit. especially that those those well able to afford larger craft are prepared to take the risk with impunity of being caught and especially that the marinas do not have the guts to insist that each and every boat has insurance,a BSS and a valid river license.
Seem to recall a post or two ago that giving the marina office a slice of the action, say 5%, might encourage them to take greater interest ?
Grumble Grumble ! Where is TTwhatisname when we need im ?
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

As previously discussed, there is only one way to protect income and ensure that every penny due is gathered in - check every boat on the river and in marinas. The process is a bit cumbersome and labour-intensive but does produce positive results.

In 2012 and just two years after IWO2010, I know that two patrol boat officers checked nearly 3,500 boats between Penton Hook and Hurley on the main river, booked 360 unregistered of which 340 bought a licence within a month or so; the others went to court where they were all found guilty, fined and received a criminal record as well. Statistically, the evasion rate was around 10% on the main river and much higher in marinas so the EA should not be surprised by its latest results.

This has to be an opportunity for the EA and marina operators to collaborate to ensure all berth holders comply and buy a licence. I don't want my boat berthed next to an unlicensed vessel as it may not have a BSSC or insurance. The apparent condition of any vessel is no clue to it being river worthy and safe. At least the current displayed licence indicates that it has both BSSC and insurance at the time of registration which gives some comfort.

If I was the Waterways Manager, I'd have my team out on the river from Easter, checking every boat is displaying the appropriate licence and booking those who don't. The sooner you start this annual process, the quicker you get the needed revenue.
 
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Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

I'm not at all surprised. September is an odd month for their first flag day, as the river was at its busiest during the hot spell during the school holidays. As well as the hardcore evaders, they would have added a fair number of unlicensed craft that were towed to the river and owners of unpowered craft who wouldn't know what a licence was if it bit them on the bottom.
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

I'm not at all surprised. September is an odd month for their first flag day, as the river was at its busiest during the hot spell during the school holidays. As well as the hardcore evaders, they would have added a fair number of unlicensed craft that were towed to the river and owners of unpowered craft who wouldn't know what a licence was if it bit them on the bottom.

They have had other flag days during the year but often just do tea drinking visits to boatyards or hand out safety leaflets to boaters, nothing of great merit.

If I were a betting man, I'd put money on a navigation user forum rep 'man on a mission' having had several words with the waterways manager and convinced him that the evasion rate is higher than they thought, so they went out and looked and guess what? It was!
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

Nothing stated above suprises me one tiny little bit. especially that those those well able to afford larger craft are prepared to take the risk with impunity of being caught and especially that the marinas do not have the guts to insist that each and every boat has insurance,a BSS and a valid river license.

I find wealthy people are the least likely to part with their money unless payment is demanded and are the most likely to avoid paying or at the very least delay payment.
Perhaps that is why they are wealthy.
.
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

I find wealthy people are the least likely to part with their money unless payment is demanded and are the most likely to avoid paying or at the very least delay payment.
Perhaps that is why they are wealthy.
.

An easy way (in theory) of dealing with that is have a surcharge (disguised as an early payment discount) to encourage payment by the due date.
That's what CaRT do - you never know they may eventually take over and Thames boater rue that day...
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

An easy way (in theory) of dealing with that is have a surcharge (disguised as an early payment discount) to encourage payment by the due date.
That's what CaRT do - you never know they may eventually take over and Thames boater rue that day...
That won't achieve anything if someone is intent on not paying at all. Also, cash flow tends not to be a consideration as, unlike a commercial concern, the books are not balanced until the end of the year.
Similarly, as per Oldgit's suggestion, why should the EA need to give a cash incentive to marinas to encourage payment of licence fees? After all, without their boat owning customers they wouldn't have a business.
One would have thought it would be in their own interests to encourage compliance which would give them, and us, confidence that the owners have BSS and Insurance.

I have asked to be informed of payment statistics month by month for 2018. It will be interesting to see now many craft are actually registered on 1st January which is when payment is due !
 
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Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

Most I would imagine if they are on direct debit?
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

Even with DD you have to fill out a form (paper or electronic) and actually make the effort to get the license - it doesn’t just roll on like VED etc...
 
Pier pressure .

Perhaps....

Time for quizzical comment when next wandering through the marina office, to the effect that
"Ginourmous Loan III " does not appear to have been licensed last year and perhaps the marina manager might like to gently remind the owner of this lapse of memory. :)
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

Even with DD you have to fill out a form (paper or electronic) and actually make the effort to get the license - it doesn’t just roll on like VED etc...
I believe you will not be recorded as having 'paid' and be sent a new registration plate until you have confirmed your details (by post, phone etc) and agreed to a new DD. If I am correct, then I would expect the registrations statistics to record it on the date your confirmation is received.
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

I was wondering if I'll have to queue to get in the marina tomorrow and if there will be room in the car park given the number of boaters who will flock there to affix the new 2018 licence to the boat windscreen :eagerness:
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

I was wondering if I'll have to queue to get in the marina tomorrow and if there will be room in the car park given the number of boaters who will flock there to affix the new 2018 licence to the boat windscreen :eagerness:

Lots of them where i moor already.
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

I was wondering if I'll have to queue to get in the marina tomorrow and if there will be room in the car park given the number of boaters who will flock there to affix the new 2018 licence to the boat windscreen :eagerness:
You won’t be queuing behind me, it’s not arrived yet! Actually it’s not arrived because I’ve not paid for it yet and I’ll do it Tuesday. :hopeless: shhh don’t tell.
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

I was wondering if I'll have to queue to get in the marina tomorrow and if there will be room in the car park given the number of boaters who will flock there to affix the new 2018 licence to the boat windscreen :eagerness:

It has been on the screen for a few days now, but this mornings job was to remove the 2017 one.
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

What happens to boats that go through a lock without a license when a keeper is on duty?
As I understand it, they are just given a warning and allowed to proceed.
Perhaps the EA could introduce a fee for using a lock without a licence (£50?) Which could be used as a credit against a license.
Only possible when a keeper is on duty though.
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

What happens to boats that go through a lock without a license when a keeper is on duty?.
The lockie should take their details and issue them with an ‘unregistered craft’ notice, a copy of which is then sent to Reading for further action.
Whilst the idea of a fixed penalty appeals (and I have frequently argued for this) it would require specific legislation to permit the EA to do this.
As you say, all these remedies fail if there is no one in duty and out of hours.
 
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Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

<snip>Similarly, as per Oldgit's suggestion, why should the EA need to give a cash incentive to marinas to encourage payment of licence fees? After all, without their boat owning customers they wouldn't have a business.
One would have thought it would be in their own interests to encourage compliance which would give them, and us, confidence that the owners have BSS and Insurance.
<snip>

I would have thought most marinas would be reluctant to get involved without some financial benefit to themselves. Much the same as most (all?) will say that it is a requirement for boats kept in their marina to have insurance but never actually ask for proof that the insurance is actually in place. If they make it a policy to check on insurance and then miss a boat that subsequently goes bang and destroys a neighbouring boat, they could find themselves in hot water, better to just make the requirement part of their T's & C's and then keep the oneness fully on the boat owner to abide by said T & C's.
 
Re: Bit like the Sus Laws. Shiney leave it alone Scruffy and were going to take a loo

What happens to boats that go through a lock without a license when a keeper is on duty?
As I understand it, they are just given a warning and allowed to proceed.
Perhaps the EA could introduce a fee for using a lock without a licence (£50?) Which could be used as a credit against a license.
Only possible when a keeper is on duty though.

On the spot fine sounds like a good idea but unfortunately, as B1 says the EA don't seem to have / be able to get the required legislation in place to enforce such fines. I've transited a lock before without a licence on display and been made to fill the report form out and then moaned at by lock keepers later on the trip for not showing them the report form until they asked for it. Several days later, I received a letter from the EA reminding me of the need to display the licence their records showed I'd already paid for - was the first trip out of the season and I'd forgotten to bring the licence with me...

As for out of hours, I've been saying for years that out of hours the locks should only be operable after activation with a swipe card / RFID card, which would prove that at least one of the boats going through each lock cycle out of hours had a licence and as an added bonus, would also give the EA some stats on the number of boats moving after hours.

Such cards could be activated and de-activated from a central control and therefore a much better idea than the "Yale" style key given out to licensed operators for out of hours use, which can of course be copied easily.

Unfortunately all the above requires investment money, which the EA has none of.
 
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