Regal 2565 - Electric Windlass- On -Board Heating

[george unthank]

Looking at Regal 2565 - Seems to have been generously loaded with extras (or are they ? ) - Bow-thruster - New Garmin chart plotter / fish finder

Would this craft be likely to have a Windlass - electric ?
There is s switch on dash reading 'windlass' Can I make any assumptions from that
Other than that is there a manual type whereby you dont actually have to haul the chain; something that works on some kind of winch , for example ? I would need some assistance hauling a chain and feel safer with either an electric powered or a gear-assisted mechanism.
I will need to install a 220 v electric oil heater.
Will I need to have engine running to keep current to heater. I have seen a
small diesel generator for powering heaters . inside cabin lights .
I would read for 2+hrs at night if I stayed O/N and would imagine that would run down any battery .
I've heard of zeon lights . Would these be more suitable for my purposes.

a/ would it have a windlass
b/ what types are available
c/if I have 'shore power will I be able to run a cable to electric heater without my having too much proficiency in electrics
d/ what about a diesel generator- are they safe ; Do they take up much room ; or a petrol electricity generator ? ( want to stay away from petrol)
Any help appreciated

 

[carlton]

a/ would it have a windlass
b/ what types are available
c/if I have 'shore power will I be able to run a cable to electric heater without my having too much proficiency in electrics
d/ what about a diesel generator- are they safe ; Do they take up much room ; or a petrol electricity generator ? ( want to stay away from petrol)
Any help appreciated

a) Possibly - if the original owner specified one or he or a subsequent owner had one fitted.
b) They tend to have a 12 volt motor.
c) If shore power is available and the boat has been fitted with a proper circuit you just plug into a socket like you do at home.
d) Diesel gennies tend to be pricey. You should only need one if you're intending to anchor/visit marinas without shore power.

Re. the Windlass switch - the only thing you can assume is that there's a switch... There may be a motor, or there may be wiring already in place to enable the motor to be fitted, or there may be just a switch. The current owner/broker should be able to answer this.

 

[rafiki_]

On a boat of this size, a diesel Gennnie is not really necessary. If you need power away from the shorepower, you can buy a "suitcase" petrol generator for about £500, like a Kipor 2000kVA (2kW ish) which will boil a kettle, run the microwave, and run a small heater (1.5kW). These are small hence easy to stow.

Have you tried pressing the windlass switch to see what happens?

 

[Spi D]

Would this craft be likely to have a Windlass - electric ?

According to Regal it is optional. It is uncommon, however, so see factory fitted switches on a Regal if not connected and in use.
http://archive.regalboats.com/dsp_boat.cfm?boat_id=144&boatyear=07

I will need to install a 220 v electric oil heater.

The boat comes standard with a shorepower system, that will run any 220v equipment and charge batteries. Will also run water heater when on shore power.
If engine is connected to the water heater (common with fresh water cooling), the hot coolant will heat the water when running.

Will I need to have engine running to keep current to heater

You can't really make useful heat directly from 12v. Hot coolant may be used via radiators, but is very rare on this kind of boat. Popular alternative is an air-heater running on diesel. Very easy on the battery, no need to run engine to keep up.

Power onboard is a matter of balance (like a bank account - if you take out more than goes in, you're in trouble ). For safety reasons it is common to have two batteries or battery banks, separated when engine is not charging. This allow you to use all power from one battery, still having the other on full power for starting the engine.

Battery size (capacity) and the charger needed, can be calculated by adding the consumption of the devices you want to run. Eg. 3 lamps at 20 watts, a fridge of 60 watts and a diesel heater of 30 watt totals to 150 watts which at 12v takes 12.5 amps.

It takes 125 Amps to deliver 12.5 amps for 10 hours, so your battery capacity must allow this (being of 125Ah + a good marginal since you cannot use a battery 100%).
If on shorepower the charger has to provide the 12.5 amps effectively to keep the battery on level, more to run the devices and charge the battery.

 

[george unthank]

Thank you Spi d ,
You've given me a load of info here . Please bear with me a little further Can I back off a little her and ask something fairly basic.
Is there a small diesel generator which will deliver A/C - that's what I use in my house -Yes?
I would be running a computer and/or maybe a dvd player , and a hoover
What I need is something which will deliver power to a dehumidifier and a heater( when I am away from availability of shore power) - the same dehumidifier / oil heater / hoover as I would use at home .
It seems I will need a generator to provide current to 12 volt items such as fridge and the same generator to be able to provide power for a 220 volt Hoover .
Would the device you mention cater for both.
Thank you again for your comprehensive contribution
George

 

[carlton]

Thank you Spi d ,
You've given me a load of info here . Please bear with me a little further Can I back off a little her and ask something fairly basic.
Is there a small diesel generator which will deliver A/C - that's what I use in my house -Yes?
I would be running a computer and/or maybe a dvd player , and a hoover
What I need is something which will deliver power to a dehumidifier and a heater( when I am away from availability of shore power) - the same dehumidifier / oil heater / hoover as I would use at home .
It seems I will need a generator to provide current to 12 volt items such as fridge and the same generator to be able to provide power for a 220 volt Hoover .
Would the device you mention cater for both.
Thank you again for your comprehensive contribution
George

George - I'm struggling to grasp precisely when you would need to use a gennie. Virtually all modern marinas offer (240volt A.C. - like at home) shore-power. That means you'd have no requirement for a gennie whilst the boat was in the marina.

Hopefully you can tell us precisely when you would need 240 volt in reality.

Apologies if I'm being a bit thick here, and please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm really struggling to get my head round the image of you dropping the hook in a secluded bay and deciding that this the ideal time to either fire up the dehumidifier or break out Henry the Hoover...

 

[Spi D]

As we're just brainstorming, let's take a few different approaches.

Do not compare domestic appliances to boat/marine gear as 1:1. More things are completely different, at least when not on shore power.

The genny consideration: As the boat's systems are built to support shorepower, where the shore line runs all 220v incl. the charger (hence also all 12v), the logical solution is to have a generator that takes over from the shorepower when away from the marina. To justify a genny for that, your need for equipment not running 12v (and you can get most for 12v, incl. diesel burning heater, ventilation, hoover, pc power adapter, TV, DVD players etc.) should be quite important.

Next, consider your needs: If the goal is to have a temperature controlled, dry cabin at all times, you'd need to think about insolation and keeping doors & windows closed. A combined cool/heat inverter will use a lot of power (eg. Dometic Marine selfcontained 16.000 btu unit use up to 6.5 A @ 230v = 1500 watt). Although silenced, it will even emit noise. Add to this a home hoover at about the same wattage plus charge of the 12v system. The need for a generator would be 4-5000 watts, running 24h (marine specs, noise/vibration, performance).
Alone the investment and running costs would make one reconsider, especially since the added value in case of sale very seldom pays back to any extent.

Edit: On cold days a diesel air-heater will force warm air into the cabin. If fitted to take air (partially) from outside the warm, humidity-carrying air will be displaced and humidity will go out with it. By experience works very good and leaves the cabin dry.

A boat of the type and size in question is designed for open air use, with a nice outdoor area under a canvas and a cabin. Meant for high(er) speeds the weight/power ratio is important and adding weight definately will cause extra fuel to be burned. Room onboard for A/C, genny, etc. isn't that plenty available either.

Spend a moment thinking about what others do - and why.
Humidity in a boat is always an issue: Built like a plastic cannister, placed on water and surrounded by ever changing temperature elements, it will produce water by condensation and the first step to avoid it is ventilation. Done right it is free & efficient, some even fit solar powered ventilators that run all the time to slightly force air in/out.

Ofcourse ambient temps and humidity can be a challenge, but on average it works fine if you get fresh air in, open lockers etc., remove unwanted junk and keep things clean and tidy. Frequent, mild, cleaning is much better than "acid twice a year".


The suggested setup with properly dimensioned battery banks, separated for starting/consumption and connected to an intelligent charger, is needed regardless of the power source, and it will do very nicely at a much lower cost, if you design without the heavy 220v setup.

To keep the cabin dry between uses, many use dehumidifiers, running on 220v/shorepower. A cheap(ish) and portable solution that takes some 300 watts and even add slightly to the temperature inside.
Some have timer, humidity control or other smart features that allows for sensible, automated use.

If you consider a larger vessel or liveaboard, things get different. As do the money involved.

 

[george unthank]

George - I'm struggling to grasp precisely when you would need to use a gennie. Virtually all modern marinas offer (240volt A.C. - like at home) shore-power. That means you'd have no requirement for a gennie whilst the boat was in the marina.

Hopefully you can tell us precisely when you would need 240 volt in reality.

Apologies if I'm being a bit thick here, and please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm really struggling to get my head round the image of you dropping the hook in a secluded bay and deciding that this the ideal time to either fire up the dehumidifier or break out Henry the Hoover...

Carlton ,
You misunderstand me . I find it difficult to face the annual or bi-annual clean up .
I wanted the generator to power up lights. TV , stero etc while I am hooked up in that secluded bay .ine
Yes I know the second batt is supposed to power up lights but I have got caught where the engine batt was 'robbed ' of power and I couldnt turn the engine over in morning . Yes I know there are switches that allow current to go only one way and I was a fool for not having one . But a small diesel generator which would fit in the enginine 'bay' would make me ''happy camper''
I wanted to know if I could get a generator which would work independently of my batts and to be able to use 22ov 'home ' appliances . Do generators come with choice of having an a/c d/c option.
I suppose that would cover all my needs

 

[stuartwineberg]

Have you priced a genset

Carlton ,
You misunderstand me . I find it difficult to face the annual or bi-annual clean up .
I wanted the generator to power up lights. TV , stero etc while I am hooked up in that secluded bay .ine
Yes I know the second batt is supposed to power up lights but I have got caught where the engine batt was 'robbed ' of power and I couldnt turn the engine over in morning . Yes I know there are switches that allow current to go only one way and I was a fool for not having one . But a small diesel generator which would fit in the enginine 'bay' would make me ''happy camper''
I wanted to know if I could get a generator which would work independently of my batts and to be able to use 22ov 'home ' appliances . Do generators come with choice of having an a/c d/c option.
I suppose that would cover all my needs

Regardless of the pros and cons of havng a gennie on board, have you seen the price of a marine genset (not to mention the price of having it fitted) - we are in the thousands here - it is another marine engine on board, needs servicing annually, oil change etc plus a source of cooling water so another skin fitting. Most people quite happily use inverters these days - that gives you mains when you need it and that will boil your kettle, hoover the floor and whatever - and do it without creating a load of noise. As for the unexectedly flat battery - you must get the switches sorted so that the domestic drain can't kill your start battery. Apart from anything else, they allow you to use the domestic battery to start the boat should the main start battery fail. All of the above IMHO but based on years of having a boat with a raw water cooled Fischer Panda genset and wishing I had an inverter. All the gensets I know of kick out mains AC, basically replacing your shore power feed so all your 12 volt gear on board would run exactly as it does when you are on the marina - via the various step down and transfomer gear you already have on board.

 

[george unthank]

Regardless of the pros and cons of havng a gennie on board, have you seen the price of a marine genset (not to mention the price of having it fitted) - we are in the thousands here - it is another marine engine on board, needs servicing annually, oil change etc plus a source of cooling water so another skin fitting. Most people quite happily use inverters these days - that gives you mains when you need it and that will boil your kettle, hoover the floor and whatever - and do it without creating a load of noise. As for the unexectedly flat battery - you must get the switches sorted so that the domestic drain can't kill your start battery. Apart from anything else, they allow you to use the domestic battery to start the boat should the main start battery fail. All of the above IMHO but based on years of having a boat with a raw water cooled Fischer Panda genset and wishing I had an inverter. All the gensets I know of kick out mains AC, basically replacing your shore power feed so all your 12 volt gear on board would run exactly as it does when you are on the marina - via the various step down and transformer gear you already have on board.

Stuart
Thanks for that . I confess I hadnt given any thought to having another engine on boats with all the attendant probs , or caring like cooling , oil and of course expense
Now you have me thinking ''inverters''
What is it firstly ? Is is run off the domestic batt?
And it would heat a kettle , power a CD , and run cabin bed lght for > 2hrs ?
OK - I'll try wikepedia my fons in origo
Don

 

[george unthank]

As we're just brainstorming, let's take a few different approaches.

Do not compare domestic appliances to boat/marine gear as 1:1. More things are completely different, at least when not on shore power.

The genny consideration: As the boat's systems are built to support shorepower, where the shore line runs all 220v incl. the charger (hence also all 12v), the logical solution is to have a generator that takes over from the shorepower when away from the marina. To justify a genny for that, your need for equipment not running 12v (and you can get most for 12v, incl. diesel burning heater, ventilation, hoover, pc power adapter, TV, DVD players etc.) should be quite important.

Next, consider your needs: If the goal is to have a temperature controlled, dry cabin at all times, you'd need to think about insolation and keeping doors & windows closed. A combined cool/heat inverter will use a lot of power (eg. Dometic Marine selfcontained 16.000 btu unit use up to 6.5 A @ 230v = 1500 watt). Although silenced, it will even emit noise. Add to this a home hoover at about the same wattage plus charge of the 12v system. The need for a generator would be 4-5000 watts, running 24h (marine specs, noise/vibration, performance).
Alone the investment and running costs would make one reconsider, especially since the added value in case of sale very seldom pays back to any extent.

Edit: On cold days a diesel air-heater will force warm air into the cabin. If fitted to take air (partially) from outside the warm, humidity-carrying air will be displaced and humidity will go out with it. By experience works very good and leaves the cabin dry.

A boat of the type and size in question is designed for open air use, with a nice outdoor area under a canvas and a cabin. Meant for high(er) speeds the weight/power ratio is important and adding weight definately will cause extra fuel to be burned. Room onboard for A/C, genny, etc. isn't that plenty available either.

Spend a moment thinking about what others do - and why.
Humidity in a boat is always an issue: Built like a plastic cannister, placed on water and surrounded by ever changing temperature elements, it will produce water by condensation and the first step to avoid it is ventilation. Done right it is free & efficient, some even fit solar powered ventilators that run all the time to slightly force air in/out.

Ofcourse ambient temps and humidity can be a challenge, but on average it works fine if you get fresh air in, open lockers etc., remove unwanted junk and keep things clean and tidy. Frequent, mild, cleaning is much better than "acid twice a year".


The suggested setup with properly dimensioned battery banks, separated for starting/consumption and connected to an intelligent charger, is needed regardless of the power source, and it will do very nicely at a much lower cost, if you design without the heavy 220v setup.

To keep the cabin dry between uses, many use dehumidifiers, running on 220v/shorepower. A cheap(ish) and portable solution that takes some 300 watts and even add slightly to the temperature inside.
Some have timer, humidity control or other smart features that allows for sensible, automated use.

If you consider a larger vessel or liveaboard, things get different. As do the money involved.

Hi Spi D

Thank you so much for all this info. It will take me a while to absorb it . At least I am coming out from a bleak wilderness barren of knowledge on this forum especially from people like yourself who devote so much time to a novice . .. a novice who has had 2 cruisers which I never slept on . They were 70's style and I have my peculiarities /peccadilloes and I need to have something like the comfort of my own bed afloat I like to read for 2 hrs before lights out .. and then a proper shower in morning .
Much here for me to study and thanks again
George

 

[Spi D]

My guess is that you eventually collect info and see, that the solution found on the majority of boats is going to work for you as well.

As said, a properly dimensioned 12v system with automatic separation and intelligent battery management will easily cover your needs.

I'm running a 85 liter fridge, 14 cabin lights + courtesy & navigation lights, TV+DVD, stereo, nav. electronics, instruments, 2 bilge pumps, 3 wipers, pressurized water, water heater (engine coolant + shorepower), diesel air-heater, 5 x 12v sockets (charging phones, iPad, pc, rechargeable vacuum cleaner etc.), wc with electric mercerator, bath/kitchen drain pump, electric anchor winch, trimtabs, bowthruster and starters on two diesel engines. All on 3 batteries + shorepower.

Just have to think about the balance so regular fill-up from shorepower if engine hours gets too low for the power consumption (the battery charger LED's will show, the 3-channel voltmeter will confirm the batt. status).

Easy to use, never had a worry.

Re. morning showers: My 40 liter heater makes steaming hot water. So hot, it needs to be mixed with a lot of cold water and easily allows two persons showering. When overnighting in a marina we prefer to use their amenities and save own resources.

 

[Sulley]

I have 2 batteries on my Bayliner 285, when I overnight and there is no shore power I switch over to 1 battery so I know I can always start in the morning! Odd days are battery 1 and even are battery 2. I can happily use my 12 v cabin lights, my stereo system/ipod dock, run the fridge, watch TV/DVD on my laptop via a small inverter, charge my phone or kindle.

I do have a 2KW generator suitcase type if I am away from shorepower for a long time if required. When you run the engines the next day it charges the battery up anyway.

I'm on the Thames so unless I am in my marina there is NO shorepower I can stay away for a week with no issues.

On the marina 240v shorepower means I can run a dehumidifier when required and run the hoover when she needs cleaning!

Hope this helps.

 

[george unthank]

My guess is that you eventually collect info and see, that the solution found on the majority of boats is going to work for you as well.

As said, a properly dimensioned 12v system with automatic separation and intelligent battery management will easily cover your needs.

I'm running a 85 liter fridge, 14 cabin lights + courtesy & navigation lights, TV+DVD, stereo, nav. electronics, instruments, 2 bilge pumps, 3 wipers, pressurized water, water heater (engine coolant + shorepower), diesel air-heater, 5 x 12v sockets (charging phones, iPad, pc, rechargeable vacuum cleaner etc.), wc with electric mercerator, bath/kitchen drain pump, electric anchor winch, trimtabs, bowthruster and starters on two diesel engines. All on 3 batteries + shorepower.

Just have to think about the balance so regular fill-up from shorepower if engine hours gets too low for the power consumption (the battery charger LED's will show, the 3-channel voltmeter will confirm the batt. status).

Easy to use, never had a worry.

Re. morning showers: My 40 liter heater makes steaming hot water. So hot, it needs to be mixed with a lot of cold water and easily allows two persons showering. When overnighting in a marina we prefer to use their amenities and save own resources.

V. impressive indeed. Certainly such a system would cover all my needs .
Can I ask something fairly basic once again ?
When you connect up to shore power do your batteries get charged automatically ; or must there be a step-down charger inbuilt in boat on shore power side of electrical system ? The shore -power will be in a/c and the boat's systems will be in dd/c ( or is it other way round ?)
The old cruisers I had did not have shore-power connections . The power cruiser I have now - a 19 sc Fletcher panther 1.4 L tdi 140 hp.
Would this have such a system , as my bat is flat after disuse for 6 wks now.
Is it possible that I could harge up this bat by connecting to shore -power or am I being naive ?

 

[Spi D]

The shore power is routed, via fuses, directly to 5x 220v sockets. This allows for use of domestic devices when shore line is connected. Also runs the water heater electric circuit.

The same source is connected to a chargers 220v input side. The charger has 3 separate output channels and treat the batteries individually, according to their need & state.

When the engines run they charge the batteries and one of them circulates hot coolant through the water heater.

When nothing is charging the batteries are separated, isolating the two starting batteries, and leaving the 3rd for consumption.

Apart from plugging the shoe line in, everything works automatically.

If I want, I can turn main switches on/off - one on the battery positive and one on the battery negative side. Finally i have an optional switch for connecting the two starting batteries, in case one fails.

Many boats have systems like this. Some from new, others retrofitted.

 

[Spi D]

The power cruiser I have now - a 19 sc Fletcher panther 1.4 L tdi 140 hp.
Would this have such a system , as my bat is flat after disuse for 6 wks now.
Is it possible that I could harge up this bat by connecting to shore -power or am I being naive ?

Bank account thinking again. If your battery is charged it should easily sit 6 weeks without loosing power.

If it doesn't, you either have something connected or a defective battery.

Do bear in mind, that a battery after going flat can not be charged to 100% capacity by running the engine. The alternator will cut out before that because it is regulated by voltage, which reaches the threshold before the battery amp capacity is reached.

Step one is to disconnect the battery and charge it properly. Use a smart charger or leave it for test & charge with a competent workshop.

Once charged completely, and not deemed defective after the testing, fit it to he boat.
If the battery still goes flat when nothing is connected, it is defective regardles of tests showing otherwise.

If the battery copes it is OK and the culprit is some device using power constantly.

Your boat should have a main switch that cut the battery power from all consumers when not using the boat. The switch is manual = your responsibilty.

Tests can be done with a multimeter as well. Different procedure but may be neccessary if the simple tests mentioned shows no results.

Edit According to Fletcher you have no shore power