Refitting job #1

[Orange]

Fair enough but it doesnt actually state how the thermal transfer of 2G Flexiteek compares to real teak! Even real teak can be too hot to walk on in the Med sun so Flexiteek would need to be similar or better

I suspect Flexiteek is hotter than real teak as the marketing doesn't mention that comparison.

 

[GSL]

And also how hot it is underfoot. I've heard that it can be hotter than real teak underfoot

A lot lot hotter!!!

 

[vas]

All the hardware in the first pics was custom made for the yard, in alu alloy.
Pretty sure there was also a cost element in the decision to switch to more mainstream s/steel stuff (in the early naughties, I believe).
But I don't mind, because the design of the "old" alu cleats and fairleads was nice but not very practical.
The cleats are too low to hold more than one cable, and the fairleads had a sort of sharpish corner which I don't think would be good for the bow lines, in the long run.
All not very relevant in N Adriatic, where they use poles for mooring, but relevant elsewhere, CF included.
Besides, the new "all s/steel" hardware is very well made and solid - still shining as if it were new!

Ref the windlass, I see what you mean: the horizontal one in the first pic looks bigger compared to the vertical one used later.
But it's actually the equivalent Lofrans model - same power and chain size.
TBH, I like the Falkon (first pic), which is what I have also on the old tub in the twin gypsy version, because the free release of the chain with the red brake wheel is VERY convenient.
But surely the vertical version allows for a cleaner deck, and it's better if it should ever be used as a winch. Compromises...

What's your take on the antiskid design/colour, V?
Yours is one of the views I'm more interested in! :encouragement:

P.,

np, surely SS cleats are much nicer than ali ones, custom or not. I still have two ali cleats, I've been cleaning them for ages, trying to polish them, still they are in the garage (really have to fit mid cleats and that has to be done before I finish with the cabin upholstery!)
And yes your windlass makes for a much cleaner bow!

now, regarding antiskid, remember all decks are brand new 15mm marine ply with scarf joints, and two thin mats with loads of coats of epoxy. After discussing it with Alekos who painted MiToS he suggested to mix a two pack white paint with thin quartz sand. IIRC, he rolled a layer of paint, then sprinkled the sand and once it stuck in place, got another coat of paint on top.

Now result is reasonable, someone mentioned that it's only clean once you jet wash it, true, otherwise (for me) it's OK, nothing brilliant. It IS antiskid for sure and it's as white as it can be.
For the record, aft deck seating is a grey slightly lighter than the hull grey. You definitely CANNOT step on that in the noon/afternoon if the sun is on it!!! You are absolutely fine with the white two pack with quartz.
Before going to that solution I tried to find locally something readymade but the prices I heard were shocking, so I skipped that. If kwickgrip or whatever that thing is called produces a much better finish, I may consider it for when I have a go at sanding and redoing the decks, but it's not going to happen anytime soon...

Not much of a help, I know but that's my experience.

Now, since fake teak, teakdek, etc are discussed in this thread, the two three boats I've seen with that down here were a complete disappointment, heat and different expansion coefficients meant that they were lifting on various points and looked a real mess (less than 3yrs old all of them) OTOH, my solid iroko capping lacquered are way too hot to step on, whereas the thin strips of teak (untreated 20x30mm with 20mm fresh air in between the pieces) on the bathing platform are cool to walk on as long as you want.


To sum it all up, since it seems that surface underneath is nice and clean (or can be so) a light sanding dunno 80grit? followed by the best recommendation of material should both look good and last v.long (and don't forget, once you've done it, repeating is going to be fairly easy in 5-10yrs time (unless you sell for a N5* or N6*...)

cheers

V.

PS. if I were you, I'd live for a year with the teak as is (doesn't look bad in the pics, dunno if there are nasties elsewhere). Even if it's falling apart it's not going to affect the integrity of the hull or create issues with leaks, so what's to loose?

 

[longjohnsilver]

From their website:

Oh yeah, I believe everything the manufacturers say

 

[MapisM]

LOL, I'm not surprised to see the debate sliding towards teak, either natural or synthetic. In fact, I'm wondering when also cork will be mentioned...
Feel free to discuss all that, it's interesting stuff, with pros and cons for each alternative - each to their own on that!

But probably I wasn't clear enough in my initial question, which so far has been addressed properly only by petem in his post #11.
Let me rephrase what my questions were:
1. which is the best material for creating a surface akin to, and hopefully as durable and maintenance free as, the one used in most decks of D/SD boats - see Nordhavn example below;
2. how to "design" the antiskid surface, i.e. color (as close as possible to the existing gelcoat, or different) and borders (if any).
All of that considering also the deck layout with its hatches, as per previous pics.

Mind, I'm far from pretending to convince everybody that the route I'm taking is the absolute best, and I fully understand the reasons why some of you are suggesting alternatives.
But it's my route for good - on my boat, that teak is a goner.
It's neither a matter of "if" nor "when", just of "how"? :encouragement:

 

[longjohnsilver]

LOL, I'm not surprised to see the debate sliding towards teak, either natural or synthetic. In fact, I'm wondering when also cork will be mentioned...
Feel free to discuss all that, it's interesting stuff, with pros and cons for each alternative - each to their own on that!

But probably I wasn't clear enough in my initial question, which so far has been addressed properly only by petem in his post #11.
Let me rephrase what my questions were:
1. which is the best material for creating a surface akin to, and hopefully as durable and maintenance free as, the one used in most decks of D/SD boats - see Nordhavn example below;
2. how to "design" the antiskid surface, i.e. color (as close as possible to the existing gelcoat, or different) and borders (if any).
All of that considering also the deck layout with its hatches, as per previous pics.

Mind, I'm far from pretending to convince everybody that the route I'm taking is the absolute best, and I fully understand the reasons why some of you are suggesting alternatives.
But it's my route for good - on my boat, that teak is a goner.
It's neither a matter of "if" nor "when", just of "how"? :encouragement:

Heathen!. We thought you loved wood!

 

[Portofino]

We have a none teak boat and infact it's so easy to live with .
Allthough a simple design from the outset -re smooth edges etc it lends itself to antislip .
Reinforcing my earlier point and I think VAS re all the vertical surfaces and nooks , n crannies that "teak" mask,s .
It's a yard job with a yard handy in gel coating ,then painting .

Ours looks like its been put on with a roller and there's a 1cm or so smooth border at most edges .
The final surface is like little peaks as if as the roller was advanced the paint tried to follow attempted to pull up leaving tiny peaks .
It's a cream colour not white like the base gel coat on the top sides .
Despite the obvious accident waiting to happen -fall in cos no guard rail ,it's surprising grippy to feet ,
The for deck has a crown and the side deck s slope down too

1cm border

Deck gear it's painted right up to -
Hatch has a 1cm border

1cm smooth edge around panals hatches in the cockpit

Here (ignore the lock hole ) --see the border finish around the panals

Two hatches/skylights --they have done it without a border flush fit .--the inside of the frame when open is smooth
Zoom in under the horns bottom L to see a border next to the window superstructure and the surface finish too



Only teak is solid planks on the bathing platform really thick and durable .

There are teak cockpit versions but the broker an ex Itama employee advise me if the engines need the hatches opening up it all has to come off /destroyed and my Guardiane also informed of other boats ( sorry no name ) whereby they had to rip off the teak to get to the engines / gearbox ,tanks etc .
Here you just (after unbolting cockpit furnature ) just lift and replace the pannals .

It's cool under foot too in the sun .

Hope this helps ---

 

[jfm]

Congratulations mapism on completion

With one exception, fake teak is unbearably hot in the med. my brother had one of his decks in the older stuff and one in the newer stuff (work was done over two winters) and the newer stuff is better but still way too hot. His children can't walk on it and you worry about them. It's a nonstarter in my book

The exception is the cork decking 2000. I don't love the look but it's not bad and it is both cool and incredibly grippy when wet. I mean much gripper than anything else on the market. I have it in my tender and am really pleased with it.

Mapism, your problem is that paint only looks good if it is kept back 5-10mm from edges and has radiused corners, like the nordie pic. Teak goes to, then up, the edges as you know. So you have LOTS of labour time fixing and polishing all your corners and edges. Massive job and probably not economically sensible.

So while I would vote real teak, and get a guy to clean it, if I follow the terms of the question I would have to use paint and take it up the edges with a little skirting at the edge, and live with the ugliness of that plus the dirty foot marks all the time, or install decking 2000. I would choose the d2000. With white caulking :encouragement:

 

[Portofino]

Congratulations mapism on completion



The exception is the cork decking 2000. I don't love the look but it's not bad and it is both cool and incredibly grippy when wet. I mean much gripper than anything else on the market. I have it in my tender and am really pleased with it.

Mapism, your problem is that paint only looks good if it is kept back 5-10mm from edges and has radiused corners, like the nordie pic. Teak goes to, then up, the edges as you know. So you have LOTS of labour time fixing and polishing all your corners and edges. Massive job and probably not economically sensible.

Agree -our posts have x,ed

I think it depends on the design if it was intended to be painted or teaked

He's a consumer driven post design by some years teak

Maintenance night mare ? --smells nice though
Imagine replacing that lot in a 2005/2006 boat eek

 

[Portofino]

Just a thought what exactly is on it
It it this stuff ?-- maybe ask the bulder to replace ? Or perhaps deepen the grooves-router as mentioned earlier and re caulk --DIY able ---pre cut ply mounted panals

Or this thicker pieces individual layered on a template before fixing to the boat --like this ?

Or this stuff or similar veneers of various thickness -- the back wears through leaving v little room to repair

It does not look like real solid 12-15 mm planks Hallberg Rassey style with pegs from the pics you posted .

 

[Hurricane]

The exception is the cork decking 2000. I don't love the look but it's not bad and it is both cool and incredibly grippy when wet. I mean much gripper than anything else on the market. I have it in my tender and am really pleased with it.

I agree that the cork decking works well on the tender - I think it looks good as well - in fact, I had to reject the installation on our tender to get it looking right.

But I wonder if it would work on the main boat.
Maybe on a bathing platform but do you think it would have the durability that is required - chair legs etc digging in?

I think I'm still on the search for a good plastic teak.

 

[Bouba]

I also like the Nordhavn style of painted anti slip. But the opinions of this forum seem to be that if done by hand it will look a bit of a mess. If I was in your position I would look at the stick on stuff, either rubber or the anti skid film.

 

[MapisM]

Ours looks like its been put on with a roller and there's a 1cm or so smooth border at most edges.
The final surface is like little peaks as if as the roller was advanced the paint tried to follow attempted to pull up leaving tiny peaks .
It's a cream colour not white like the base gel coat on the top sides.

Very interesting pics L, many thanks.
By chance, could you possibly ask some Itama folks what material they used? That would be VERY useful to know...!

I particularly like the pic below, clean and easy - makes me think/hope that also the DP bow might look similarly nice, eventually.
Maybe I'll try a bit of photoshopping - it's just a pity that ATM I don't have any pic good for that purpose.
Apropos, actually I don't have any decent pics at all yet, which is the reason why I must postpone a proper introduction with pics of the new entry (both boat and yard) in the asylum - sorry.

 

[MapisM]

Mapism, your problem is that paint only looks good if it is kept back 5-10mm from edges and has radiused corners, like the nordie pic. Teak goes to, then up, the edges as you know.
So you have LOTS of labour time fixing and polishing all your corners and edges. Massive job and probably not economically sensible.

Yup, spot on.
But I'm wondering, what is in practice the difference between the Nordie/Itama job and an ex-post refitting?
I mean, as I understand both those deck finishing were NOT done in-mould (so to speak), but applied afterwards instead.
So, aside from teak stripping, why should it be so different to do that as a refit rather than during build...?

 

[BartW]

Ours looks like its been put on with a roller and there's a 1cm or so smooth border at most edges .
The final surface is like little peaks as if as the roller was advanced the paint tried to follow attempted to pull up leaving tiny peaks .
It's a cream colour not white like the base gel coat on the top sides .

we had exactly the same on some parts of BA when we bought her,
(on the FB side wings, and on the eyebrow rooftop)
ours was clear white , not cream white like the Original Canados colour

I asked around, but never found exactly that paint anymore,
but it must be known in some Italian yards...

 

[BartW]

So, aside from teak stripping, why should it be so different to do that as a refit rather than during build...?

the difference is that you probably don't start from a smooth surface, so you will need several layers of paint / filler and sanding (I think)
unless you could use sort of a paint that can be applied in a thick layer such as epoxy floor covering which we have here in our offices.

 

[stillwaters]

Doesn't this need to be separated into two distinct processes?
It is likely that the removal of the teak will impact on the underlying grp, potentially also including those areas of smooth guttering around it, the same gutter strips that you wish to still retain as smooth borders around the anti-skid areas where the teak has previously been. So the first requirement will be to refinish the decks so that they are not only sealed against moisture ingress, but also in order to provide a smooth even surface for whatever anti-skid material is to be applied. At the very least, an epoxy coating, but especially around any edge damage, re-gelcoating may surely be necessary?
The second process is then about which form of anti-skid material to use, and how best to apply it. It surely has to be a painted surface, the obvious ones have already been mentioned, one of the many available from most of the leading yacht paint brands, International etc., or something like KiwiGrip.
Then as with any painting job, preparation is everything. Perhaps this link to a KiwiGrip how-to vid might be worth a look, as amongst other things it shows how easy it is to use and also to get clear borders around it. The process shown should equally apply to any paint application.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNPZLrKA2fc

Whilst all these finishes come in a choice of shades, as mentioned in this video, they can also be tinted to virtually any shade required.
Although I've no idea if anti-skid sealers are any good, especially long term, for the time it will take, maybe the following Surestep sealer vid might be worth a watch - it does get better if you stay with it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-CYvHhTFk8

 

[MapisM]

the difference is that you probably don't start from a smooth surface, so you will need several layers of paint / filler and sanding (I think)

Yup B, that's understood - I was just wondering if jfm had any other differences in mind...

 

[MapisM]

Although I've no idea if anti-skid sealers are any good, especially long term, for the time it will take, maybe the following Surestep sealer vid might be worth a watch

J, do you have any experience with that product?
As I understood, in the video they are suggesting to put it above the "usual" micro-diamonds GRP surface which you can find embedded in most mainstream GRP decks.
Which seems weird, sort of. I mean, I wish I already had that type of deck finishing, i which case I would do nothing at all!
Yes, it can be difficult to clean sometimes, depending on what sort of dirt gets stuck inside the diamond shaped surface.
But it's as practical and longlasting as it can be - not to mention that it doesn't get hot at all.
Putting another layer of some resin stuff on top of that doesn't make a lot of sense imho... Or am I missing something?

 

[Bouba]

J, do you have any experience with that product?
As I understood, in the video they are suggesting to put it above the "usual" micro-diamonds GRP surface which you can find embedded in most mainstream GRP decks.
Which seems weird, sort of. I mean, I wish I already had that type of deck finishing, i which case I would do nothing at all!
Yes, it can be difficult to clean sometimes, depending on what sort of dirt gets stuck inside the diamond shaped surface.
But it's as practical and longlasting as it can be - not to mention that it doesn't get hot at all.
Putting another layer of some resin stuff on top of that doesn't make a lot of sense imho... Or am I missing something?

Then get the deck re gelcoated with the diamond tread pattern. It maybe expensive but it's a permanent fix and never has to be redone