Refilling fire extinguisher

Refueler said:
Hi DB ... just a little confused ...

You recall a petrol fire in bilges and used FOAM Extg's .... but then talk about washing of the powder ??? Two separate incidents ?
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Sorry .I meant powder. It is a age thing. I am confused quite a lot these days. :unsure: have edited my post

I dare not tell you how it started as you would consider me a TOTAL prat & not just the standard prat
 
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Times and equipment change but up to 2007 I was running around 5 one day firefighting courses a year for new entrants intending to work on MN or fishing vessels. We used refillable extinguishers with CO2 cylinders that were pierced when used as propellant (similar to life jacket inflation only bigger) plus, as appropriate, water, foam concentrate or bags of dry powder. CO2 extinguishers were single use, as vessels would not carry the means to refill them.

My experience of using powder extinguishers is as described by @Sandy - being engulfed by clouds of powder. We were working out on the pier but wind or no wind it was always much the same. During one course we had a professional film crew recording. The camera was set up about eight metres away from our simulated engine space. A student correctly directed the powder in to the enclosure; the cameraman ran up the lane carrying camera and tripod to try to keep it out of the dust cloud.
 
srm said:
My experience of using powder extinguishers is as described by @Sandy - being engulfed by clouds of powder. We were working out on the pier but wind or no wind it was always much the same. During one course we had a professional film crew recording. The camera was set up about eight metres away from our simulated engine space. A student correctly directed the powder in to the enclosure; the cameraman ran up the lane carrying camera and tripod to try to keep it out of the dust cloud.
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Perhaps it was the manufacture of the extinguisher that was at fault. I always used Chubb in my factories & had a couple of fires with wood shavings etc & never had the problem that you describe. Also the way it is used has a bearing. Just standing there & spraying powder into the air does not help.
 
Daydream believer said:
Also the way it is used has a bearing. Just standing there & spraying powder into the air does not help.
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Please! we were training people to fight fires effectively, not playing with the extinguishers. I had the same experience with powder extinguishers during my own training with Strathclyde Fire Service. It is possible that the composition of the powder has changed over time.

Incidentally, I also discovered, and would demonstrate, that powder over oil fires can reignite when the oil soaks through the powder (or the powder sinks) and oil is exposed to air.
 
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srm said:
Please! we were training people to fight fires effectively, not playing with the extinguishers. I had the same experience with powder extinguishers during my own training with Strathclyde Fire Service. It is possible that the composition of the powder has changed over time.

Incidentally, I also discovered, and would demonstrate, that powder over oil fires can reignite when the oil soaks through the powder (or the powder sinks) and oil is exposed to air.
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Powder extinguishers are recommended for petrol fires, as well as wood. So that is why I had them in my joinery works. Their effectiveness in my boat, on petrol,was proven.
 
Sandy said:
Well, CO₂ kills a fire by removing O₂ from the fire triangle, Oxygen, heat and fuel, but in a confined space like a boat it can also remove the O₂ that you need to live. Sounds like you were lucky this time.

If described this was an fire in the engine bay and contained to the electric bits of the engine fine, BUT what if it had spread to other combustible materials, e.g. wood, oils and plastics, the CO₂ would not have extinguished those materials as it does not remove the heat part of the triangle.
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As I understand it Co2 does provide cooling as well as removing oxygen. Because co2 is under huge pressure which is released. Now just how much in the fire picture I am not sure. I do know some terrible people have been known to cool a drink can by placing in the discharge cone of a Co2 extinguisher and blasting out the Co2. I would go for Co2 if I had a choice if the Co2 removing oxygen did not convince you to go for fresh air surely the fire smoke and fumes would. ol'will
 
For engine space fires there are better products than foam, powder or CO2. I use a so called 'clean agent' extinguisher, not sure what type of clean agent. The bulb break point temperature can also be specified. If my engine space goes on fire, the last thing I want to do on a GRP boat that will burn rapidly to the ground, is faff about switching off my engine and then retrieving and extinguisher and poking it through a hole. I want instant reaction from the fire extinguishing system.

What is a Clean Agent? - Vanguard
 
RunAgroundHard said:
For engine space fires there are better products than foam, powder or CO2. I use a so called 'clean agent' extinguisher, not sure what type of clean agent. The bulb break point temperature can also be specified. If my engine space goes on fire, the last thing I want to do on a GRP boat that will burn rapidly to the ground, is faff about switching off my engine and then retrieving and extinguisher and poking it through a hole. I want instant reaction from the fire extinguishing system.

What is a Clean Agent? - Vanguard
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Thanks for that.
 
Graham_Wright said:
What is wrong with water? There is quite a lot available!
Not for petrol I understand but diesel?
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NO NO and yet again NO!

If the diesel, or other oils including cooking oils are burning the temperature of the oil is well above boiling point of water. Water drops that fall into the oil will instantly flash into steam, spraying a fine mist of burning oil into the air - an effect much loved by the directors of action movies as they simulate explosions.

It is the one thing I would have enjoyed demonstrating on fire fighting courses, but was far too dangerous to try. In the training videos a cup of water on a very long handle is splashed in to a burning chip pan. This results in an instant fireball engulfing the surroundings. The firefighter is wearing a full protective silver suit like the ones I once saw at an airport as the plane I was on landed with suspected engine trouble.

A modern very fine water mist extinguisher may work depending on the size of the fire, as the mist evaporates in the flames cooling them, but this is getting towards professional standard gear.
 
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Dare one ask, if the date on the fire extinguisher is sacrosanct? I have some that are out of date but the pressure gauge are still at 100%. I "think" or rather mistakenly, hope, that they will still work on any fire. And I do have more than enough, to try on any fire. 9 and 4 varieties, in total plus two fire blankets.
 
In Lagos, the local fire brigade happily tests and renews expire date labels on old fire extinguishers. However, they refuse the ones that have more than two renewals based on cylinder age. So my trusty CO2 cylinder was rejected, even though its tare weight showed it full. It still works, but not officially.
 
Mudisox said:
Dare one ask, if the date on the fire extinguisher is sacrosanct? I have some that are out of date but the pressure gauge are still at 100%. I "think" or rather mistakenly, hope, that they will still work on any fire. And I do have more than enough, to try on any fire. 9 and 4 varieties, in total plus two fire blankets.
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I had a discussion with a marine surveyor who condemned my powder extinguishers due to the date quite a few years ago. I asked whether the pressure gauge or date was more accurate. He accepted that the gauge would be more accurate so they 'passed' in his survey.
The survey earlier this year, the surveyor was happy to rely upon the gauges but thought that the powder had gone 'solid inside even though I had shaken them once a year. Now replaced them with watermist extinguishers from firexo who seem to prefer selling via amazon rather than direct.
 
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