Reefing the main sail almost downwind solo

[Minerva]

Should one be reefing the typical cruising yacht in F8 whether inshore or off?
I am ignoring junk rigs; as "non typical", in european ownership

I don’t want to be wearing full sail at 35kts! 3rd reef and no real drama at all.

 

[Laser310]

The question about when you put the reef in depends on the boat so asking whether you should be reefing in force x is an open question

exactly.

I have a sporty and pretty powered up 30fter; when it's just my wife and I, with nobody on the rail, I throw a reef in at about 12kts.

my first reef is not that big, and we are just out for a pleasant sail - no need to be heeled 30 degrees...

 

[Daydream believer]

I don’t want to be wearing full sail at 35kts! 3rd reef and no real drama at all.

Which was the point of my post. Most boats would be reefed long ago.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Which was the point of my post. Most boats would be reefed long ago.

which reef?

I don't think anyone is suggesting putting a first reef in at 35kts.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Just done this running nnw to Valencia in building winds from nothing to 28kts. All 3 reefs step by step put in whilst running on TP32 160deg true.
The first was the only one I needed to crank down the leach to get the last bit of luff down to the rams horns. The second 2 were a doddle. Put them in early as the forecast had it building fast and it did. 2 hours from calm to almost 30kts. Nice waves building too. Highest surf was 8.4kts which for my chubby girl is pretty good

 

[steveeasy]

Not sure there is a right or wrong way if you need to reef. Ive been out with the wind and waves building on the stearn. Dismissed reefing and paid the price. After turning the boat in to the wind all hell broke loose. The main was wrapped arround the boom and stayed there for the night. The headsail was all that was needed.
All depends on many factors and if you’ve got hands to help or your on your own. Id struggle to pull my main down sailing dead downwind. Might be impossible.

Steveeasy

 

[geem]

Not sure there is a right or wrong way if you need to reef. Ive been out with the wind and waves building on the stearn. Dismissed reefing and paid the price. After turning the boat in to the wind all hell broke loose. The main was wrapped arround the boom and stayed there for the night. The headsail was all that was needed.
All depends on many factors and if you’ve got hands to help or your on your own. Id struggle to pull my main down sailing dead downwind. Might be impossible.

Steveeasy

I do it dead down wind on 44ft heavy mono single handed in over 30kts. You develop a technique that works for you and your boat. I haven't turned the engine on and turned in to the wind to reef in about 20 years. Well over 50,000nm ago

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I do it dead down wind on 44ft heavy mono single handed in over 30kts. You develop a technique that works for you and your boat. I haven't turned the engine on and turned in to the wind to reef in about 20 years. Well over 50,000nm ago

As I intimated earlier if you expect at sometime to experience adverse conditions you equip and set the boat up to handle it, you don’t want to learn by unfortunate experience. In my case it was a fully battened main with quality cars and intermediate cars, and I never regretted the expense.

 

[geem]

As I intimated earlier if you expect at sometime to experience adverse conditions you equip and set the boat up to handle it, you don’t want to learn by unfortunate experience. In my case it was a fully battened main with quality cars and intermediate cars, and I never regretted the expense.

Ditto.
We reef at the mast so we are fully versed with being at the mast in testing conditions.

 

[Minerva]

I do it dead down wind on 44ft heavy mono single handed in over 30kts. You develop a technique that works for you and your boat. I haven't turned the engine on and turned in to the wind to reef in about 20 years. Well over 50,000nm ago

What sort of cars have you got on your sail & do you have an external track up the mast?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

What sort of cars have you got on your sail & do you have an external track up the mast?

In my case it was Harken cars and an external track.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

We reef our fully battened mainsail down wind. Straight spreaders and cars on every sail attachment point to the mast. We have a line through the reef point at the mast end of the sail. In strong winds, we haul the reefing line down at the back of the sail then haul in on the line through the reef points at the front of the sail. We have winches on the mast so easy to pressure the sail down without dragging across the spreaders. We sheet the boom in sufficiently so the sail isn't touching any part of the rig and we always have the preventer tight. It's easy in light winds but harder as the wind increases. Still far more preferable than turning up into the wind in big seas at night

Hauling down on the leech of the sail will stretch it prematurely.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

on bigger boats, a line to haul down at the reef point is really helpful

but i don't get the part about doing the clew before the tack...

Pulling down on the leech will stretch it. The luff is constructed differently and is designed to withstand tension. It is standard procedure, as taught in sailing schools to haul down the luff first and secure the tack to the reefing hook, ramshorn, or whatever, then with the boom supported by the topping lift, it takes very little effort to haul down the aft reefing point and secure it to the aft end of the boom, simultaneously tensioning the foot of the sail, by use of the aft reefing line.

 

[Daydream believer]

If I were to pull the leech first it would cause the sail to fill & make the reefing operation difficult. In my opinion, ( & it is only based on my experience of the boats I have sailed on) one has to free the wind from the sail as much as possible. That means getting some luff pulled down quicker than the leech is pulled in. It is , of course, a question of balance with single line reefing.

If one is trying the operation whilst down wind , then any wind in the sail will make it difficult, unless the boom is pulled in an amount , such that the sail cannot actually gather any wind.. Otherwise, it stands to reason that the wind will fill the sail & the sail will rub down the shrouds & spreaders. This is less so with short battened sails as they are able to collapse more easily. Less so with a fully battened sail.

With fully battened sails the type of car will dictate whether the sail has to be in line with the groove of the luff or if it can be pulled down with the sail at a substantial angle. On my boat the sliders & 4 cars need to have little side pull as possible, otherwise they will jam in the mast groove. Hence, I have to head up into the wind. I do not find that a problem in the waters I sail in. I rarely encounter seas of 4M & generally, by the time they get to 2.5 M, I am on second reef anyway. I do get lots of 2 M seas though & they can be very short in some wind over fast tide situations in the Channel etc.

 

[geem]

Hauling down on the leech of the sail will stretch it prematurely.

No way. You put reefs in. They pull down way harder

 

[Roberto]

Pulling down on the leech will stretch it. The luff is constructed differently and is designed to withstand tension.

It is the opposite: think about the classic crosscut mainsail, the panels are all perpendicular to the leech, whereas they meet the luff at an angle. The highest cloth resistance is perpendicular to the yarns, so if one applies the same tension the leech will stretch a lot less than the luff.

 

[Daydream believer]

On my boat the luff is supported by a tape. If that broke mid length the sail cloth would rip right across the sail. The leech loading is supported by the way the loads are distributed across the sail & do not apply to just an edge of the leech .

I do not believe that is makes any difference if one does pull a bit unevenly on the leech for the short period that one is reefing. Neither do I believe that the power one can apply just by pulling manually is very great. It all comes into play when the sail is properly set & that is much easier if the sail is not partially full as when running down wind. The action of winching the sail in at that point MAY induce unnecessary high loading to the attachment point.
This can be avoided by taking the weight on the topping lift ( if one has one) & releasing the vang so the boom can ride up to the sail rather than the other way round.
Of course the load will be the same in the end but one avoids the snags & extra friction that can occur during the process

 

[geem]

On my boat the luff is supported by a tape. If that broke mid length the sail cloth would rip right across the sail. The leech loading is supported by the way the loads are distributed across the sail & do not apply to just an edge of the leech .

I do not believe that is makes any difference if one does pull a bit unevenly on the leech for the short period that one is reefing. Neither do I believe that the power one can apply just by pulling manually is very great. It all comes into play when the sail is properly set & that is much easier if the sail is not partially full as when running down wind. The action of winching the sail in at that point MAY induce unnecessary high loading to the attachment point.
This can be avoided by taking the weight on the topping lift ( if one has one) & releasing the vang so the boom can ride up to the sail rather than the other way round.
Of course the load will be the same in the end but one avoids the snags & extra friction that can occur during the process

That won't work. The idea of reefing down wind is to have the boom under total control. Preventer and mainsheet tight with the boom pulled in to about a 45degree angle to keep the sail off spreaders and lowers. The load on the leach when simply pulling some sail down towards to the boom is not as high as putting thr reef tension on, in my experience. The idea is to alternate between pulling some sail in at the leach then pull some in at the luff. No massive loads on any part of the sail

 

[flaming]

The only thing I would add to all this good advice, is that if you are winching the sail down, please look up... It's pretty easy to get a batten pocket or something hooked over the end of a spreader, and then damage either the sail or the spreader by just grinding on.... And when you've left reefing a bit late, and it's all a bit hairy, it's easy to just think you need to apply brute force....

Dragging the sail down the spreaders generally isn't either a massive issue, or the ideal way to do it. But sometimes it is the best bet for the circumstances. It does require a bit of care though.

 

[Laser310]

Pulling down on the leech will stretch it. The luff is constructed differently and is designed to withstand tension. It is standard procedure, as taught in sailing schools to haul down the luff first and secure the tack to the reefing hook, ramshorn, or whatever, then with the boom supported by the topping lift, it takes very little effort to haul down the aft reefing point and secure it to the aft end of the boom, simultaneously tensioning the foot of the sail, by use of the aft reefing line.

I always do the luff first

i was responding to a post in which the opposite was being done - they were doing the leech first