Reefing roller furled main

[MagicalArmchair]

With our young crew (0, 3, 6 and 9 years old) we normally sail in lighter airs on Mirage, our Bavaria 40.

Our delivery trip back from the Orwell to the Medway saw a little more wind than I have been used to when furling the sail away.

Our method of furling goes:

1. Head to wind with the boom over to port side, main sheet in.
2. Make sure the kicker is on to ensure the angle between the boom and mast is 90 degrees.
3. Let off the outhaul, and furl away. Half way through furling lock off the outhaul and furl it tightly to get it tight on the drum.

Note I am effectively single handed, I cannot keep tension on the outhaul and the other half of the continuous line when furling.

When in mere 20 knots of wind I tried the above, the clew of the sail flapped wildly, lifting it, and causing the below “bunching up” of the sail as I reefed.

I stopped at this stage, and unfurled it again for fear of it jamming on the drum. I tried a run with the sail sheeted in to port side next, however there was too much force on the sail, so I ditched that idea. I finally sailed all the way up river with it unfurled, the wind died and I furled it away in the usual way.

In a blow, how do you reef your Selden roller furled main without the clew rising, causing the sail to bunch up?

 

[William_H]

Not at all familiar with this reefing/furling system. However I would describe your system as "In mast furling/reefing" Not to be confused with a another reefing system usually known as roller reefing/furling where boom rotates rolling the sail around the boom.
perhaps you could try a bungee of various tensions pulling the clew out. ol'will

 

[penfold]

Training a 9 yr old to maintain tension on a line around a winch should not be impossible, then the clew outhaul can be eased as you furl to maintain a steady tension; the described method sounds like a recipe for the sail creasing and getting stuck. It will also help them feel involved with what's going on rather than just being self-loading freight. On the iterations of in-mast furling I have encountered it was generally possible to furl single-handed as the furling line winch was self-tailing and the outhaul easing while maintaining tension was manageable with one hand.

 

[rib]

I found a couple of loose turns of the furler line around a winch helps or ease a metre at a time.

 

[ashtead]

I am no fan of in mast but if you have one is the trick not to use a winch drum to bring in the sail and gently ease the out haul with other hand with boat on autopilot heading set. Whether you need to actually winch in the furler rather depends on the smoothness of the system. Isn’t the logic much like furling a self tacking headsail ie furl in and let out halyard with other hand ? Maybe the system needs a service though ? I should say when I have used such systems on charter Bav I have always cursed at them though .

 

[Tranona]

Like rib I leave 2 turns of the outhaul line around the winch which I find usually provides enough tension. I have the outhaul on port and the furling lines on starboard and with my size sail (23 sqm) never need to use the winch. You are right to keep the boat on autopilot with the wind about 20 degrees off the starboard bow, although I don't usually have it sheeted tight as you don't want it drawing.

 

[Supertramp]

With our young crew (0, 3, 6 and 9 years old) we normally sail in lighter airs on Mirage, our Bavaria 40.

Our delivery trip back from the Orwell to the Medway saw a little more wind than I have been used to when furling the sail away.

Our method of furling goes:

1. Head to wind with the boom over to port side, main sheet in.
2. Make sure the kicker is on to ensure the angle between the boom and mast is 90 degrees.
3. Let off the outhaul, and furl away. Half way through furling lock off the outhaul and furl it tightly to get it tight on the drum.

Note I am effectively single handed, I cannot keep tension on the outhaul and the other half of the continuous line when furling.

When in mere 20 knots of wind I tried the above, the clew of the sail flapped wildly, lifting it, and causing the below “bunching up” of the sail as I reefed.

I stopped at this stage, and unfurled it again for fear of it jamming on the drum. I tried a run with the sail sheeted in to port side next, however there was too much force on the sail, so I ditched that idea. I finally sailed all the way up river with it unfurled, the wind died and I furled it away in the usual way.

In a blow, how do you reef your Selden roller furled main without the clew rising, causing the sail to bunch up?

I have a similar system and have had wrinkles when furling a flapping sail in brisk wind. I think you are doing the right things but consider the side to side boom angle carefully so that the sail is not drawing but the clew is held by the wind leaving some gentle flapping or lifting at the luff. I have plenty of friction in the line routings to substitute for a 9 Yr old on a rope! On mine this seems to keep things straight on the roller. Interestingly a similar thing happens to my genoa if I roll it when flapping wildly. A tiny bit of filling seems to keep the rolls straight. I thought it was old sails and lack of expertise on my part.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Thank you. I’ll give that a try.

I serviced the reefing set up over winter (apart from the grease point at the top as I couldn’t face going up the mast again ?), however, it still needs to be winched to reef it down. I’ve checked the sheaves the continuous line runs through and it all seems free.

It never occurred to me to use the starboard winch as part of the operation, however that makes perfect sense - I’d be worried the angle from the clutch to the winch might be too great, but it’s worth a try. Failing that I’ll let off a small bit of outhaul at a time to start with and also I’ll let that mainsheet out when furling.

Thanks for the advice as ever and I’ll report back with how I get on.

 

[Tranona]

It never occurred to me to use the starboard winch as part of the operation, however that makes perfect sense - I’d be worried the angle from the clutch to the winch might be too great, but it’s worth a try. Failing that I’ll let off a small bit of outhaul at a time to start with and also I’ll let that mainsheet out when furling.

Do you have both the furling line and the outhaul going to the same winch? My old 37 was like that originally and I changed it to have the furling lines on starboard and the outhaul on port. The 33 is set up in the same way so that I can stand in the middle of the boat and reach both. Easier to help keep the tension on the outhaul by leaving a couple of turns on its winch.

 

[Humblebee]

Good thread and some useful ideas.
I have been having no end of problems with our behind-the-mast Facnor roller reefing. If the sail isn't rolled away tightly enough it bulges out and jams next time I try to unfurl it. Clearly, keeping tension on the outhaul is important and the suggestion to put a couple of loose turns of the outhaul around a winch when furling looks worth a try. Also, I had been neglecting to set the boom at 90 deg to the mast so I'll give that a go also.
The sail is old and baggy so success may still elude me but I'll keep trying before shelling out on a new sail, probably this winter.
Thanks for all the tips!

 

[gavin400]

Good thread and some useful ideas.
I have been having no end of problems with our behind-the-mast Facnor roller reefing. If the sail isn't rolled away tightly enough it bulges out and jams next time I try to unfurl it. Clearly, keeping tension on the outhaul is important and the suggestion to put a couple of loose turns of the outhaul around a winch when furling looks worth a try. Also, I had been neglecting to set the boom at 90 deg to the mast so I'll give that a go also.
The sail is old and baggy so success may still elude me but I'll keep trying before shelling out on a new sail, probably this winter.
Thanks for all the tips!

What direction do you furl your Facnor - i.e when viewed from aft do you furl clockwise or anticlockwise?
The installation manual notes that it is important to furl the correct way to avoid friction, but it doesnt tell you which way!
I e-mailed them and they replied either direction is fine

 

[Humblebee]

What direction do you furl your Facnor - i.e when viewed from aft do you furl clockwise or anticlockwise?
The installation manual notes that it is important to furl the correct way to avoid friction, but it doesnt tell you which way!
I e-mailed them and they replied either direction is fine

Thanks Gavin, as I understand it, viewed from above the top of the mast it should furl anticlockwise and should be furled and unfurled with the wind just off the starboard bow.
Interesting they should say either way is fine, I thought it might be quite critical.
Cheers,
Chris

 

[rib]

Thanks Gavin, as I understand it, viewed from above the top of the mast it should furl anticlockwise and should be furled and unfurled with the wind just off the starboard bow.
Interesting they should say either way is fine, I thought it might be quite critical.
Cheers,
Chris

Furl it with the wind pushing the furl /sail tight .other wise it goes in loose and can jam .!

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Furl it with the wind pushing the furl /sail tight .other wise it goes in loose and can jam .!

I do this when the wind is light, however, I spoke directly with Selden and their response was:

We would advise for you to always furl the sail head to wind, this is so that the sail isn’t full, therefore taking the load off of your furling mechanism.
As well as making your furling and life a lot easier it will also help to improve the longevity of your system.

 

[rib]

I do this when the wind is light, however, I spoke directly with Selden and their response was:

15 years as a ymi,says not practical ...it proved more promatic increasing jamed mainsail issues ...but by all means take what advise you think fits )

 

[Tranona]

Very opposite of my 20 year experience with Selden furling on 2 boats. The Selden advice works well and normally never need to use the winch because the loads are so low compared with when there is any wind in the sail. As per the original question the only difficulty if you are single handed is keeping enough tension on the outhaul to stop creases from forming.

 

[Humblebee]

Furl it with the wind pushing the furl /sail tight .other wise it goes in loose and can jam .!

Thanks RIB, I think furling it tightly might be the key to sorting the problems - at least until I get a new sail for next season.
Off to the boat on Saturday with a couple of friends who both have more experience than me so fingers crossed!

 

[rib]

Very opposite of my 20 year experience with Selden furling on 2 boats. The Selden advice works well and normally never need to use the winch because the loads are so low compared with when there is any wind in the sail. As per the original question the only difficulty if you are single handed is keeping enough tension on the outhaul to stop creases from forming.

No one is suggesting wind in the sail... Just catch the wind on one side of bow ( starboard normally) couple loose turns on winch with furler and haul away by hand. No winching.. 45 weeks a year teaching with 8 different boats 5 with in mast furlering over 15 years.. But this is one way there may be others, as all ways. Just my input ?.

 

[rib]

Thanks RIB, I think furling it tightly might be the key to sorting the problems - at least until I get a new sail for next season.
Off to the boat on Saturday with a couple of friends who both have more experience than me so fingers crossed!

Have fun ? as other post. Wind just off the bow couple loose turns on winch haul by hand. Furler May jam a bit on splice as it goes round winch at mast... While you have crew time to play with it and see what works for you.. Try and fine a lumpy bit of water too.. ???. To do it in.. Enjoy your weather ?

 

[Tranona]

No one is suggesting wind in the sail... Just catch the wind on one side of bow ( starboard normally) couple loose turns on winch with furler and haul away by hand. No winching.. 45 weeks a year teaching with 8 different boats 5 with in mast furlering over 15 years.. But this is one way there may be others, as all ways. Just my input ?.

Your post#13 says the opposite "wind pushing the furl/sail tight" which is why I queried it!. Seems you were not explaining what you do clearly enough. The Selden advice is to have the wind off the starboard bow because the slot is profiled for the sail to furl in from the port side. The sheet should not be hard in so that there is any wind in the sail because as they suggest this puts load on the gears and make it hard work.