Reefing a furling genoa

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I've recently noticed an ocean sailing couple who use a winch on the genoa furling line when reefing. I've always avoided winching the furling line believing that if it needs to be winched then something isn't right. However I can see that as a furling technique, especially when on the wind, it has some merit. Ease the genoa sheet a foot or so then grind in on the furling line. It avoids having to dump the sheet, the sail then flogs itself to shreds whilst the furling line is manually hauled in. But my concern is that the force required on the furling line to furl a half loaded (not flogging) sail is so great (because of the small diameter of the furling drum which exerts twisting force on the foil) that it will break something. Experience/thoughts please?
 
Not something I would ever want to do from choice, I'd be very surprised if furling systems are designed to withstand that.
 
Hold my hand up to this one Robin .
The way our furling line is to return to the cockpit it just doesn't work with our 150% Genny even in very light winds to pull it by hand is quite a pull .

If I left the cockpit and Stood on the stern (Central cockpit boat) it does became manageable .

It's quite easy to know if some thing restricted it from coming in ,
So there very little change to break anything .
When we first brought the boat there was a rigger working on a boat next to us and we did ask his option as we through it had some thing to do with the gear ,
He said with every twist and turn as the line comes to the stern then the last block which as 180o turn is the problem ,
So we learn to put up with it or if we need to get it in quick , I stand on the stern although winching it take longer , it's more under control and there no flogging of the sail .
 
I've used this technique, I think it's more and more common on larger boats - we have an older design boat with a big genoa. When the wind gets up, even with it flogging it can be nearly impossible for someone strong to pull in the furler so we will often put it on a spare winch and use the "ease then wind" method.

It goes without saying that the crew/skipper need to be very careful about the loads, and we take our time, but it beats a 16mm sheet whipping you in the face in a F6!
 
I find that easing the halyard a little helps a lot. If i do not, then whether the sail flogs, or not, makes little difference. What one has to avoid is putting a twisting pressure on the forestay. I have unstranded one & put a significant twist in the shackle fitting to the mast by over zealous use of the winch.
 
I do this on ocassion but it is caused by friction in the blocks and as has been said every change in direction etc.

Mine is center cockpit and line is passing by cockpit towards rear and then coming forwards onto winch. If I can pull the line by hand as it travels aft, I am happy to winch it...

My Spinnaker halyard managed to get caught in the top swivel once or twice and it was obvious pretty quickly that something was amiss...even using the winch...
 
I would never actually winch the genoa in but I do often take a turn around a winch to use it as a sort of ratchet and to help prevent me accidentally letting it go. As pandos says, if you winch it in you may not notice a halyard wrap or the swivel is jamming, which could quickly lead to a damaged forestay.
 
We had to winch ours for the first time last weekend, crossed sheeted to upwind winch, nothing stuck, when on berthed dropped the Genoa and found the swivel had gone very tight, hot water and cleaner and found back to normal. First time I’ve ever winched it but did make handing easier with only the sheet to ease
 
No need to us the winch on my boat, sheet in one had furling line in the other and can be done at any point of sail. But I'm only 10 meters and the drum usually has a fresh water rinse at the end of a trip.
 
I can just about manage ours by hand by letting the sheet go completely if it's windy. But once reefed and the furling line is cleated off I go and winch in the genoa with the sheet winch. This must produce a huge force in the furling line but the drum and the rest of the kit stands up to it. Is this any worse than a large force in the furling line from the use of a winch when reefing? Just wondering.
 
Does it depends on the the gear, the person and the need? As the boat and sail gets bigger, so does the kit to deal with them, but the people do not. Someone might say "I'd never winch my furling line on my 9m boat" but on a 14m boat the force required might be significantly more, but the furler will be bigger and can withstand more.

Personally, if I can't pull in my genoa by hand, something is wrong. But first mate can't pull as hard and would need to use the winch to exert the same force as I'm happy to do manually. And if I really really needed to reef in a hurry and the furling line was a little recalcitrant, I'd use the winch.

The problem of course is that if you do that you get tight furls and can come to the end of the furling line before you're done. Unless your furling line is dyneema with the sheath removed on most of the bits round the drum....
 
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My genoa has a dedicated lewmar winch. The whole genoa furling line winds onto the winch drum.
It has a brake/lever to let the drum run free and let the furling line out. Since there is no gearing you can feel how much force is being exerted and let the genoa sheet off more if it become to hard to turn. I have a similar winch for the main halyard but with a steel cable.
In 38 years nothing has broke or twisted so far.
 
Our 13m, 15T ketch has a 170% genoa. In anything over about 18kts it's hard to pull the furling line on any point of sail. We have a well-maintained Harken MkIV system, but the forces exerted by a sail that large either flogging or running downwind make it all but impossible to furl without mechanical assistance.

In my RYA comp-crew I was taught to never winch the furling line for fear of breaking something, but that was a 30ft rival with a 100% jib. I thought long and hard about the right policy for our boat, but concluded that winching is better because:
1. It is possible
2. There's no more force exerted on the gear than when we sheet in the genoa tight.
3. Some other boats of a similar size have electric furlers, which must surely present all the same risks we're concerned about with winching the furling line
4. Stress is much reduced in the cockpit.

It is the right choice for us, but might be different for a smaller, lighter boat with a fractional rig and a small jib.
 
DJE said:
I can just about manage ours by hand by letting the sheet go completely if it's windy. But once reefed and the furling line is cleated off I go and winch in the genoa with the sheet winch. This must produce a huge force in the furling line but the drum and the rest of the kit stands up to it. Is this any worse than a large force in the furling line from the use of a winch when reefing? Just wondering.
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That's normal, the danger with winching is, that if you have a halliard wrap, or other malfunction, you might damage your forestay, being unaware of the actual effort required to roll the sail.
Re letting the sheet go completely if it's windy; the flogging of the sail in this situation will require extra effort on your part to furl/reef. A better idea is to bear away to a Training Run, when the sail will begin to be blanketed by the mainsail, making it very to roll in.
 
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