Red - you are responsible for cleaning your tanks!!!

[Dave_Snelson]

Why are you surprised??

Nothing this government does is in your interest.

1) Surveillance cameras everywhere. For your security?
2) Speed camaeras everywhere - for your safety?
3) Airline taxation, and one flight per family per year - for the environment?
4) Road taxation - for the environment?
5) No prison spaces and criminals set loose - for your security?

Am I beginning to paint a pattern for you here?

Will the last one out of Great Shittan, switch the lights off.

 

[Whitelighter]

[ QUOTE ]
If they ban red diesel, are they going to "harmonise" the price (tax on) of road diesel down to the same as our european cousins?

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Nope, it appears you can only 'harmonise' up.

 

[Whitelighter]

[ QUOTE ]


Will the last one out of Great Shittan, switch the lights off.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, fu<span style="color:black">ck</span> it, leave them on. The EU will need them to see where to dump their cr<span style="color:black">ap! </span>

 

[Garryt]

If this is actually true, I hope someone at MBM takes up the mantle and organises some protests about the unfairness of this legislation. After all, it wasn't the Mobo community that scrapped the use of red diesel!

 

[clivew05]

[ QUOTE ]
If this is actually true, I hope someone at MBM takes up the mantle and organises some protests about the unfairness of this legislation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very True - Simon do you see MBM or MB&YM taking up this mantle?

 

[Brayman]

[ QUOTE ]
My Diesel Heating and Cooking fuel (allowed to be red) comes off the same tank. Does this mean I have the expense of buying and fitting a seperate tank,


[/ QUOTE ] Not a bad idea to have a small separate tank, you know some people have been known to put the "wrong" fuel in their tanks by accident.

 

[gjgm]

well.... one thing is the definition in law, the other is interpretation or enforcement. Take fags and booze.. Customs werent raiding dinner parties in Hampshire to check where the hooch was bought. I seriously doubt they have the resources or interest to be draconian. And even if they did, some local magistrate still has to make a judgement. Who knows.. naughty boy, you fuel is still a bit pink. £25 fine. However I m sure Customs will have an interest in persuing those who it might deem likely to be abusing the law, and that is a craft/skill I imagine they will develop with experience. Engine hours,proof of refueling,amount of red.. cant be that hard can it.Cant say this news alarms me much. Be realistic;how on earth can the UK get how ever many tens of thousands of leisure craft tanks cleaned out?
Re Jezz comment;is it agreed somewhere charter will be exempt?

 

[Whitelighter]

Currently any vessel operating commercially can use Red, and will continue to do so after the expiry of the derogation. FYI, currently, fishermen, sea schools and charter boats already claim back the VAT AND the 7ppl duty on the fuel.

 

[Channel Ribs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My Diesel Heating and Cooking fuel (allowed to be red) comes off the same tank. Does this mean I have the expense of buying and fitting a seperate tank,


[/ QUOTE ] Not a bad idea to have a small separate tank, you know some people have been known to put the "wrong" fuel in their tanks by accident.

[/ QUOTE ]

And then there is the emergency use issue... "My main tank became contaminated and in order to make it back to port I was forced to use cooking fuel and thus contaminated my main supply, sorry."

 

[Gludy]

I think that the intrusion of having to show all that to an official who does not understand can be a real problem.

For example- my fuel consumption varies 8 fold depending on cruising speed - to calculate out boat hours, last fill up etc is a nightmare. Plus you are probably going to have to do this after the event unl;ess you carry all your historic receipts etc. So I do see that as a probem. the Customes in the EU paper stated that enforcment was a huge problem - now they do not answer any arkward questions and simply state it is not a problem!!!!

If you lose on an argument with them the penalty can be losing your boat.

 

[Gludy]

The "sorry" would be them confiscating your boat because you broke the law - as simple as that.

I think all the difficult issues will be glossed over and left to resolve themselves with the result of a total mess in actual practice.

I really do not think anyone in giovernment could survive a day running a normal business out in the real world.

 

[Cliveshep]

Searched MBM's website quickly, where exactly did you see this or is it only in paper form?

 

[Gludy]

Its in today's MBM that arrived via the mail.


"Boaters could be forced to remove red from tanks"

"A spokesman for HM Revenue & Customs told MBM 'It will be the owner's responsibility to ensure that old fuel is removed from the tanks of their boats and only duty paid fuel is used! "

This of course means that you have to ditch any old fuel because the use of the fuel will be banned after red goes not the purchase!!!!

So do not fill up in a late minute mad rush because you will not be allowed to legally use red even though your purchased it legally at the time!!!!!!

 

[omega2]

Some one the other day asked "where do old boats go?", well if the floating marine tax men get thier way we shall find out, As for impounding where will they put them? I also have been told that your tanks will self purge within two fill ups, this from a delivery driver, but seeing what happened to Tesco fuel the other week I have my doubts. WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE NEXT GENERAL ELECTION, and then all those who did not put them back last time and you know who you are, will have to get off thier bums and go and vote.

 

[Gludy]

In practice it is not illegal to use red on the road or even after the 'red date' in a boat - it is illegal not to pay duty on it.
So it would be possible to look at your tanks, work out the taxes and then send that amount off to the taxman!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I really doubt if two full ups will purge the red - if that was true for cars then a lot more would be filling up with red.

 

[DAKA]

[ QUOTE ]
In practice it is not illegal to use red on the road or even after the 'red date' in a boat - it is illegal not to pay duty on it.
So it would be possible to look at your tanks, work out the taxes and then send that amount off to the taxman!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly what happened a few years ago when joe public stopped the fuel tankers leaving depots.

Anyone considered important was allowed to fill their vehicles with red and simply send a cheque for the duty.


(Aimed at food suppliers) I know of several 38 ton Tractor units that had red in them and were not cleaned afterwards.

 

[Gludy]

Frankly, I cannot see many boaters cleaning out their systems - the governments own estimate for which was £1000 per boat.

Nor can I see many sending of cheques for the red in their tanks and even if they do - how can such a thin be enforced as all that does is extend the eneforement problems.

What I do see happening is a total walk away from what was stated in the EU submission document and the transference of every responsibility and cost over to the boat owner.

Its is going to be an even bigger mess than I thought possible because I now beleive that the questions on this or that will not be answered and we will end up at the mercy of petty Customs officials. Not really the way to run a free country.

 

[Dave_Snelson]

OK Jez...how did you get that swear word in there /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Gludy]

I think it would take a whole series of those words repeated one after the other to sum up my feelings on the way this is all going /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[sarabande]

One of Customs and Excise's lesser-known powers is that if you are caught using red diesel from a farm in a road vehicle, then they can confiscate the road vehicle.

Now if they transfer the current legislation wholesale to the maritime environment, will they be able to snatch your boat if there are traces of red in the tanks ?