RED is DEAD

What is all the fuss about exactly? Price in Cowes IOW last week was £1.12 and about £1.20 on a garage forecourt.

Ok if you are running a 50ft mobo you might be crying in your soup, but for the rest of us using a tank full a year its not really an issue. Plus by moving to white it solves the problem of visiting Europe.

Farmers and genuine fishing boats, can crack on and claim the extra duty back.
 
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So, we've had the consultation after the dictation of the Eurocrats. Basically whilst 'levelling up the country' the marinas serving all leisure craft on the South Coast can happily change to 'White' Diesel as that accounts for 98% (a Guess) of their sales, turn right at Lands End and 98% of sales are commercial so will continue with Red Leisure Yotties take a hike.
So those north of the M4 have a 5 mile hike to get white diesel from a filling station, Then filling with Hygroscopic, bug welcoming Biodiesel. The infra structure exists, it can be supplied at FULL duty (although I pay more for Red on 60:40 split than I pay for white at the supermarket)
Leave the system alone. Unfortunately those who live on Yachts 'cos they can't afford houses are seen as 'the priveledged' so an easy target. One statement that Jarred was we need to encourage people to be more environmentally friendly - Hmmmm I use wind power for 90% of the distance I cover, if that is not environmentally friendly why is the Irish sea covered with wind farms??
Once again as with the MGN's we will consult the ignore and do what we want.
 
SaltyC said:
So those north of the M4 have a 5 mile hike to get white diesel from a filling station, Then filling with Hygroscopic, bug welcoming Biodiesel. The infra structure exists, it can be supplied at FULL duty (although I pay more for Red on 60:40 split than I pay for white at the supermarket)
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Having had a dose of the bug on red and using white for the last three years that is not my experience.

Apart from the red dye why do you think red has magical properties?
 
fisherman said:
and bio diesel is hygroscopic

Guide to FAME Biodiesel - The White Diesel Alternative | Crown Oil
Click to expand...
There is an interesting page at Red Diesel Suppliers - 24/7 Nationwide Deliveries | Crown Oil

The paragraph
Red diesel is a low duty form of white diesel, which can be used in untaxed off-road vehicles i.e. in agricultural, industrial and construction machinery, and as home heating only. As this fuel is minimally taxed, it cannot be used as automotive diesel fuel in normal cars.
Click to expand...

and this one on
Red Diesel FAQ’s - 33 Red Diesel Questions Answered | Crown Oil
Red diesel is used by many industries in off-road vehicles, generators and machinery. It’s virtually the same fuel as regular diesel except that a red dye is added to it to identify illegal usage. There is strict legislation that surrounds its uses, which is why our knowledgeable team are here to answer any questions you may have.
Click to expand...

indicate that red has no magical properties.
 
Sandy said:
There is an interesting page at Red Diesel Suppliers - 24/7 Nationwide Deliveries | Crown Oil

The paragraph


and this one on
Red Diesel FAQ’s - 33 Red Diesel Questions Answered | Crown Oil


indicate that red has no magical properties.
Click to expand...
No.in fact it has if anything, less magic, which may be advantageous.
the man told me that newer engines have very small injector nozzles, he compared my Ford nozzles to a modern engine, as a biro to a needle. High pressures are needed, and injector erosion is a factor, and so is the hygro issue in this regard.
 
fisherman said:
No.in fact it has if anything, less magic, which may be advantageous.
the man told me that newer engines have very small injector nozzles, he compared my Ford nozzles to a modern engine, as a biro to a needle. High pressures are needed, and injector erosion is a factor, and so is the hygro issue in this regard.
Click to expand...
Small modern engines with small high tech nozzles run on road fuel all the time, and are expected to last a long time and pass emission tests every year.
A big smoky old bus engine will burn anything and keep running when the undissolved water mixed with red has worn the injectors.
 
I have a 35 year old VP2002 that runs on any clean diesel and have no plans to replace it in the next 30 years, by which time I am likely to have shuffled off this moral coil.
 
lw395 said:
Small modern engines with small high tech nozzles run on road fuel all the time, and are expected to last a long time and pass emission tests every year.
A big smoky old bus engine will burn anything and keep running when the undissolved water mixed with red has worn the injectors.
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The diesel engineer deals with road vehicle engines, and also said ".......that's why they are in here being repaired". My boat engine did about 1200 hours pa in busy times. At an assumed equivalent of 30mph from a road vehicle that's a lot of miles. My last engine had no injector problems at 12,000 hours, so we might say 360,000 miles. Will a car, with newer high pressure nozzles burning hygroscopic bio diesel do that? More important, would my old Ford dinosaur do it on modern fuel? Genuine question, is the red more accomodating? I see some new boat engines having injector problems at a very few thousand hours, but they are burning red, has it caused the trouble? Is the hygro fuel dissolving water that is filtered out of red?
 
Sandy said:
Most people like to drive the boat to the fuel pontoon.

I saw the price of red in Falmouth last summer and realised I was paying less for white.
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They do, don't they, but I've never understood why. When I kept my boat in the UK it was much less hassle to pick up a couple of cans of red in the car then siphon it into the boat at my leisure than to mess about queuing at the fuel pontoon in the hope someone would turn up.
Obviously no good if you have 1000l tanks but fine if you drive to you boat and use a dozen or so litres a week.
 
Quiddle said:
They do, don't they, but I've never understood why. When I kept my boat in the UK it was much less hassle to pick up a couple of cans of red in the car then siphon it into the boat at my leisure than to mess about queuing at the fuel pontoon in the hope someone would turn up.
Obviously no good if you have 1000l tanks but fine if you drive to you boat and use a dozen or so litres a week.
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If you can take 1000lts the local suppliers tanker will deliver to the boat. My usual was 750+, but 500 no problem.
 
fisherman said:
The diesel engineer deals with road vehicle engines, and also said ".......that's why they are in here being repaired". My boat engine did about 1200 hours pa in busy times. At an assumed equivalent of 30mph from a road vehicle that's a lot of miles. My last engine had no injector problems at 12,000 hours, so we might say 360,000 miles. Will a car, with newer high pressure nozzles burning hygroscopic bio diesel do that? More important, would my old Ford dinosaur do it on modern fuel? Genuine question, is the red more accomodating? I see some new boat engines having injector problems at a very few thousand hours, but they are burning red, has it caused the trouble? Is the hygro fuel dissolving water that is filtered out of red?
Click to expand...
Plenty of lorry and bus engines running up big mileages on white fuel.

I suspect the vast majority of fuel problems with marine engines are caused by badly designed fuel tanks which harbour water, and seafarers' tendencies to store fuel for too long. Neither of these things help compatibility with modern fuels.
 
If the supplier orders the fame free Red there is no bio fuel. As lw395 says above a problem with boats can be how long it is stored, some are sailing boats after all. As stated previously the south coast marinas can switch to white as the majority of clients are leisure boats. Once further north they will stick with Red as the majority of customers are fishermen / commercial users. Fuel will not be available at the dockside, if you find a white supplier the question then will be what is there turnover or are you buying old fuel? Don't fancy a summer cruise and 2 mile hikes to filling stations carrying 25 litres of fuel to fill a 100 litre tank.
 
So far, from what I interpret the coming legislation, I can see no reason for marinas to change to white Derv.
As the diesel supplied is also for heating the 60/40 should remain.
 
SaltyC said:
If the supplier orders the fame free Red there is no bio fuel. As lw395 says above a problem with boats can be how long it is stored, some are sailing boats after all. As stated previously the south coast marinas can switch to white as the majority of clients are leisure boats. Once further north they will stick with Red as the majority of customers are fishermen / commercial users. Fuel will not be available at the dockside, if you find a white supplier the question then will be what is there turnover or are you buying old fuel? Don't fancy a summer cruise and 2 mile hikes to filling stations carrying 25 litres of fuel to fill a 100 litre tank.
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I'm sure that people will find ways to get fuel to the more remote places, perhaps that garage 2 miles away will offer to deliver 50 litres?
Otherwise, people are either going to have to use their boats within the limits of their tanks, or fit bigger tanks.
A very few people might find their current boat is no long really viable in its current location.
In Scotland, the majority of those will be remoaners anyway, the writing's been on the wall for 10 years, that's just going to be the way it is.
Visitors from the EU will want white, anyone who sails to the EU will want white. The Dye is cast....out.
 
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