Red diesel

[oldgit]

Lifted wholesale from Burham Bobs post on Sailers Forum

"Despite the RYA assurances etc and the Government's best endeavours, this is the latest reply from my Euro MP - and it looks like we're stuffed.


Dear Mr Calver,
I have seen the response to you from the Belgian Embassy, and can confirm that their interpretation of the law is correct.

The UK secured derogation from the Energy Products Directive allowing it to apply a reduced rate of excise duty on red diesel for private pleasure boating. In December 2006 this derogation fell, with effect from November 2008.

HMRC reduced the rebate on red diesel but did not entirely get rid of it, so the UK remains in breach of the EU directive.

You will see attached the letter from the Tax and Custom Union DG of the European Commission. This confirms that it is not Belgian but UK law at fault.

The Commission has already addressed to the UK a letter of formal notice on this matter , which is tantamount to the triggering of a formal infringement proceeding.


In the view of the situation it would seem you have two options: either switch to unmarked fully paid ULS diesel or wait for the outcome of the infringement proceeding and then possibly engage in a legal action. If the ECJ ruling proves to be in favour of the UK then you will be entitled to engage the liability of the Kingdom of Belgium as it is recognised that Member States have to make good the loss sustained by individuals as a result of the infringement of EU law attributable to them. But litigation is likely to be protracted and costly.

Meanwhile, I will use what influence I have to encourage the UK government to align itself fully wuth the terms of the EU directive.

I hope this helps a bit, despite your continued frustrations.

My best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.

Yours sincerely,

Andrew Duff "

Looks like we may have to finally end up paying the going rate for diesel as our friends in the Med have for years.
Does not seem to have stopped them from boating in the least.Why would it stop us over here.?

 

[PCUK]

The sooner the Euro collapses, closely followed by the EU the better it will be for all of us!

 

[oldgit]

So you think that UK government will then reduce taxes on fuel.....interesting idea
Suspect with all our exporting industries to Europe from advertising to whisky via engineering collapsing they may require a bit more cash towards unemployment benefits.

 

[neale]

Looks like we may have to finally end up paying the going rate for diesel as our friends in the Med have for years.
Does not seem to have stopped them from boating in the least.Why would it stop us over here.?

Unfortunately, our going rate (£1.41 per litre) is considerably more than their going rate:

Average prices quoted by the AA
Spain Nov 11 £1.09
France Nov 11 £1.23
Italy Nov 11 £1.27
Malta Nov 11 £1.12
Greece Nov 11 £1.18
Portugal Nov 11 £1.17
Cyprus Nov 11 £1.09

The only countries that come close to the UK for Diesel is Scandinavia with Norway, at £1.42, the most expensive in Europe.

 

[oldgit]

Marine diesel not road.

Well according to chums down in the "Med" the marina fuel prices were not so different to ours,possibly the euro+ pound rate makes the difference ?

 

[neale]

Then of course there is, depending on where you are in the Med:

Morroco: circa 0.62
Tunisia: circa 0.58
Egypt: circa 0.26
Macedonia: circa 0.99
Croatia: circa 1.05
Algeria: circa 0.25

etc etc

These prices were taken off the web so I might as well have made them up but the point is that in the Med you may not have to pay full Euro prices.

 

[neale]

Well according to chums down in the "Med" the marina fuel prices were not so different to ours,possibly the euro+ pound rate makes the difference ?

They are correct that the rate they pay for their marine fuel is not that much different to the rate we currently pay for our red diesel with the 60/40 split.

 

[rafiki_]

So can the Euro prosecuters have a go at HMRC for charging us too much for all the other fuel we buy at much higher rates than most Eu contries?

 

[rubberduck]

Bathtub diesel anyone.

 

[oldgit]

My point being,will it really stop people from boating or just curtail their trips if fuel goes up to £1.40 a litre.

 

[Thepipdoc]

£0.58 in Guernsey!

 

[MY littlebirchwoo]

News that urgently needs investigating

One local supplier has received advanced warning that they MUST cease offering red diesel to riverboats and will be, at some point in the coming months having his tank de-gassed and from that point on will only be offering road diesel... at an inflated price no doubt - He cant be alone...can he?

 

[sharpness]

My point being,will it really stop people from boating or just curtail their trips if fuel goes up to £1.40 a litre.

I tend to think it is already having an impact, as there are plenty of boats moored on their home berths, but very little movement. Whether this is due to rising fuel costs or other circumstances, who knows, but it seems very strange to me to purchase a boat and have all the associated costs of boat ownership and not make use of it.
I don't mean to aim this non usage at the forum, as you all appear to get plenty of use from your pride and joy; but unless people have endless amounts of disposable income, then i can only assume rising fuel costs will have a deeper impact in the future.

 

[SolentPhill]

I tend to think it is already having an impact, as there are plenty of boats moored on their home berths, but very little movement. Whether this is due to rising fuel costs or other circumstances, who knows, but it seems very strange to me to purchase a boat and have all the associated costs of boat ownership and not make use of it.
I don't mean to aim this non usage at the forum, as you all appear to get plenty of use from your pride and joy; but unless people have endless amounts of disposable income, then i can only assume rising fuel costs will have a deeper impact in the future.

Have to agree I didn't have the usual hassle finding visitor pontoons this season, I think bank hols in cowes was the only issue. Even gun wharf had empty berths on a saturdays.

 

[Latestarter1]

Going back to the OP.

Just before I retired was part of the original negotiations in the run up to the ending of our Derogation and was still on the copy list at the time of the last gasp.

The HMRC pragmatic 60/40 split was a masterstroke, however certain MEP's were furious and we were told at the time, particularly by the French that they would NEVER accept red diesel regardless of fudged taxation status in recreational craft.

I made the mistake of posting a long time back over on the 'dark side' and was met with usual derision as I did not appear to be part of their cozy club of 'experts'.

Fact is that RYA technical group got it completely wrong, they had no right giving assurances to boaters, they were party to exactly the same papers as I read and the European position was perfectly clear at the ending of our Derogation, this is NOT a new twist and certainly not a Belgian 'thing'. Suspect that the Dutch and French will soon be on our backs.

Makes most sense that that duty on road fuel should rise in Europe as it is easy tax to collect. However the Germans are very protective of their motor industry and likely fight such a move. Example of why the Euro cannot survive as there is no common political will on such matters.

 

[Andrew38]

What about Ireland

I read in the article about the round Britain boaters buying green diesel in Ireland at about 90p a litre - how does that work with the EU then?

 

[oldgit]

Shhh do not mention the "C" word.

Consumption .
Will this encourage the sort of revolution in marine diesels that has been seen in road engines.
Wifes mini diesel car (A1) will give amazing MPG and manfacturers proudly use this as a selling point.

Bet you a euro to a penny that at Excel a visitor from another planet would be mystified as to the stuff that makes all those bits of white plastic move .

It almost makes you wonder if the buyers of boats actually care ?

 

[boatmike]

I made the mistake of posting a long time back over on the 'dark side' and was met with usual derision as I did not appear to be part of their cozy club of 'experts'.

Made I larf did that!

You seem to be right though and one hopes the R.Y.A. will eventually stop talking out of their trouser regions.
Have just joined the "litre a mile" club having had sailboats previously and after a season around the channel next year to "debug" the new boat will be heading south through the canals..... Don't want to be fined for having red diesel in tanks but it's going to take time to get rid of the dye with 900 litres of the stuff aboard innit?

 

[oldgit]

Hoping to pop over to France for the first time next year.
Just want a bit of clarity regards Red over on the other side of the channel.
Have no probs coughing up for white and prepared to take a risk getting fined because of red in tanks but would just like to know what is going on ?

 

[sailorman]

Hoping to pop over to France for the first time next year.
Just want a bit of clarity regards Red over on the other side of the channel.
Have no probs coughing up for white and prepared to take a risk getting fined because of red in tanks but would just like to know what is going on ?

get into Bolougne fill up as soon as you get in