oldgit
Well-Known Member
Perhaps its because there are J.A.M.S out there paying £1.40 a litre in order to get to some minimum wage job, wondering exactly how an exclusive minority hobby gets to enjoy privileges to help it mess around on the water ?
Red Diesel - UK Government loses.
- Thread starter Seven Spades
- Start date
Perhaps its because there are J.A.M.S out there paying £1.40 a litre in order to get to some minimum wage job, wondering exactly how an exclusive minority hobby gets to enjoy privileges to help it mess around on the water ?
maby
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone wants to pay more, but there are some who are prepared to pay more if it gives them the freedom to go to continental countries without fear of being fined - possibly quite heavily. Many sailboat owners only buy a few tens of litres of diesel per year and the impact of paying full tax on them would be pretty low.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
What has JAM got to do with it? I put diesel in my tank & the jam goes in my sandwiches. Are we saying red Jam is banned as well, if so what do the raspberry growers say about that?
LBRodders
Well-Known Member
Just About Managing..
BelleSerene
Well-Known Member
The latest political fudgename designed to create the impression of a defined sector of society, while making as many people as possible feel they belong to it. So you garner maximum votes while being minimally clear about your actual political agenda.
Previous examples have been ‘hard-working families’, ‘the disadvantaged’, ‘the middle class’, ‘the squeezed middle’... ‘ those with the broadest shoulders’ is an inverse example of the same rhetorical trick: on hearing this one, people tend to point at someone else rather than themselves.
On hearing such a newfangled fudge, the worst reaction is to be cowed into thinking you don’t know what it means (the whole point is that it’s deliberately undefined for maximum ambiguity) or that you don’t understand a concept (it is deliberately ethereal so that everyone will mean different things by it but still subscribe to it.). The reaction should always be to ask the person using it to define its limits - with a number. How tight do family finances need to be to be ‘just about managing’? Above what income are the broadest shoulders you speak of? How hard-working is hard-working? Insist on a number - after all, they are introducing this division into our society, not you. Watch them squirm.
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the politics lecture but will I get fined if I rock up in Ostend with traces of red in my tank after Brexit? Thats all I want from this thread.
lw395
Well-Known Member
No need to wait for Brexit, in theory.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Well you will be in a JAM if you do
LBRodders
Well-Known Member
After 21 pages, pick your opinion and take your chance....or just don't go! :encouragement:
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
There is clearly a risk risk that you will. It's an offence to have traces of red in your tank in Belgium wherever it was obtained and whilst at the moment they have said they they are not enforcing their laws that could change at any time without notice.
If they are holding your passports until you pay up I'd suggest that most will (as was the case last year) pay the spot fine to get them back. I seriously doubt that the internet warriors on here would be nearly as bold in the face of the reality of a Douanier holding their passports, nor would I rely on the FCO for much support.
BREXIT is largely irrelevant other than the possible negative impact it might have on their view of Brits in general and thus willingness to impose the fines.
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BelleSerene
Well-Known Member
No. Possibly one in a thousand by the odd renegade customs officer, but they'll stop doing it pretty fast because they'll have no legal right to do so. If you are worried about that, worry also about being wrongly arrested for other silly non-offences.
lw395
Well-Known Member
That's just pure bollux.
Even UK customs/excise have wide powers to check anything dutiable, like fuel.
Are you, personally going to go to Belgium in the Spring and invite them to dip your fuel?
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
Which just about sums up why I put him on ignore, the shallowness of his knowledge combined with his enthusiasm for expounding it across the board is incredible and rather wearing to wade through.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Yawn. It's actually quite easy to avoid going to Belgium.
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
Yep, but I do wish I didn't (feel that) I have to.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Maybe you can explain how you arrived at that conclusion?
BelleSerene
Well-Known Member
Sure, Graham. An American vessel entering Belgium with marked diesel may be picked up by Belgian customs, but on showing reasonable receipts for his purchase outside the EU should not be charged EU duty by Belgian customs. That’s because the offence is not in holding marked diesel, it’s in not having paid EU duty on it. Although I have repeatedly asked in this thread for anyone to point to legislation to the contrary, no-one has. Instead, they point at the EC regulation requiring member states to ensure that appropriate duty is paid, and to the recent ruling that deems that the UK's split of duty for recreational mariners, and it’s use of marker in diesel on only a proportion of which duty is paid, are at odds with that regulation. This is all of course a constraint upon the membe EU state, not upon the individual.
After leaving the EU, the UK will be in the same position. And your vessel will be treated as the American vessel above.
Yes, of course any individual customs official can act out of spite, resentment or ignorance and charge or detain you anyway. But such extrajudicial behaviour is not the norm and doesn’t last in civilised countries.
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
Perhaps someone should fill their boat with Lawyers, go to Belgium and argue it out.
lw395
Well-Known Member
Maybe we could crowd fund it from a safe distance?
I've got a few escudo notes I'd bung in?
