red diesel tax

[cliffordpope]

Re: so they should -

Bring back petrol/parafin engines and TVO. You can still make it I think with access to bulk turpentine and lamp oil.

 

[Lotus_John]

Q:why do aviators have ultra-cheap fuel for pleasure then?

A: Because their representative body fought to keep the price down to the EU minimum unlike the RYA who adopted the views of a few Sailing Boat members who expressed concerns about the environment. They chose not to fight to keep the tax down to the EU minimum.
It is not too late to get the government to adopt a tax of 21ppl. If you do not want a 600% Tax increase you need to write to your MP , the Chancellor at DarlingA@parliament.uk and the RYA (Tell RYA to get behind this campaign now and work for benefit of all boating members)

 

[adrianm]

I've made all those points several times. No-one, least of all the RYA, is the least bit interested.

 

[Lotus_John]

Adrian

Well done and thank you, especially as the amount of diesel that you use will probably not stop your boating. I want the 350,000 motor boaters in this country to make their voice heard, in government and RYA. I believe that we could still succeed in convincing government that tax revenue will fall from the marine sector and the RYA that their membership will decline amongst the power boaters if the full road tax rate is applied to red diesel.
The argument was used that we could not apply the EU minimum tax, as we were not allowed to charge a different rate for the same fuel. Now that HMRC has agreed that we can continue to use red diesel surely this argument no longer applies.

 

[Chris_d]

Think it might be politicaly impossible in the current climate, Goverment keep cheap diesel for "Gin palace" owners but not for the rest of the populace in their cars.

 

[Lotus_John]

Chris, do not forget that,
1. The government with backing from the RYA applied to the EU to keep the fuel derogation at the end of 2006, i.e., 6 PPL on red diesel.
2. The road fuel tax contributes to the upkeep of the road infrastructure.
3. The ‘fuel escalator’, which is due to increase the tax on road fuels again in October, is justified by Gov. because of the need to deter road use.
4. Leisure pilots achieved an increase of just 2 PPL to bring them to the EU minimum.
5. I believe that most people would see an increase in tax of 15 PPL to bring marine users to the EU minimum as a significant increase.
6. Governments do not always respond to popular public opinion, after all 4000 city traders are reputed to have received bonuses averaging 1 million+ in the current economic climate.
Go on write to your MP, write to the Chancellor; write to the RYA, from the size of your wake and fuel likely to cost £6.30 a gallon you have nothing to lose and certainly, nothing will change unless we make it..

 

[chimera40]

If i declare that I charter my boat out to the man at the pump does that mean he has to give my diesel at the commercial rate. No way he can prove otherwise and probably no motivation to do it either.

 

[Lotus_John]

Despite the announcement by the RYA, that the HMRC would trust the boating community to self certify its use of red diesel from Nov 1st it would now appear that this is not the case.
The HMRC are not happy with boater self certifying whether the fuel is to be used for propulsion or heating/power generation and paying the appropriate level of tax i.e. expensive of extortionate.
I understand that we may expect an announcement that a fixed proportion of the purchased fuel will be taxable at the lower heating rate.
When will the RYA recognise the tragedy that is about to befall the leisure boat industry and the boater and start to use their influence (if any) with government to limit the tax increase on Red Diesel to the EU minimum. I think the alarming increase in the cost of fuel has rendered the “impact assessment” carried out by HMRC a totally out of date and useless.
The current estimated cost of a gallon of diesel at £6.50 (plus the road fuel escalator tax increase due in October) may even be causing some concern to sailing members who hitherto have felt that their limited use would have little impact on their boating. If so please let the RYA know of your concern so that they may re-evaluate their decision not to lobby for the EU minimum tax.

 

[Nickcf]

[ QUOTE ]
.....I understand that we may expect an announcement that a fixed proportion of the purchased fuel will be taxable at the lower heating rate.....


[/ QUOTE ]

This will be an interesting challenge for many of the staff who man the fuel stations. They will have to work out x% of total sale volume at Y p/litre and (100-x)% at Z p/litre. Also what will the pump readout say? It will only give the sale price at the commercial red diesel rate....
Unworkable in my view but then this government specialises in dreaming up unworkable and impractical solutions to most things.
The easy solution would have been to apply the minimum rate of tax for all red sales and let commercial operators claim back the extra tax paid as they do their VAT. Or ignore the EU....

 

[Whitelighter]

Its really no tthat hard and you are over complicating it. the 70/30 split or whatever will be reflected in the rate of duty applied tothe fuel.

If it were a 70% full duty 30% rebated duty split, the amount fixed by HMRC for red diesel for leisure boaters would be (0.57x0.7)+(0.10x0.3) or £0.43 duty per litre.

No maths at the pump, just a fixed duty rate.

 

[Nickcf]

[ QUOTE ]
Its really no tthat hard and you are over complicating it. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Watch this space.. Can you really see HMCE allowing a fixed heating % on any quantity? They don't already on the VAT which rises to 17.5% on volumes aboves 2200 litres for some bizarre reason. Will foreign boats be allowed the 'heating %' when use of low tax red is illegal in their country.

Also you won't have dealt with the guy that works the pump at the supplier I sometimes use. He struggles to get the price on the pump into the till in the office correctly.....