Red diesel in Ostend

[Marmalade]

Nobody has been fined.
Nobody has been arrested
Loads of us have been to Oostende
There isn't a problem.
If you want to go, go.
We'll be there next weekend (although the weather is looking as though it might have a say)

 

[Koeketiene]

Nobody has been fined.
Nobody has been arrested
Loads of us have been to Oostende
There isn't a problem.

Maybe some-one could contact the Belgian Embassy or Belgian Customs and inform them that the Ostend Douane are a bunch of slackers.
Followed by some ritual flag burning.

 

[Santana379]

Why is it always us poor individuals that end up getting the rough end of the pineapple when it should have been sorted out ages ago at EU/government level.

IMHO I feel, maybe incorrectly, that if we'd accepted the EEC position when it first became an issue about three years back rather than fighting a rearguard action (with the possibly misguided help of the RYA) to maintain our red diesel there might well have been transitional concessions, we would now be using white diesel, and it would all now be history. With the benefit of hindsight, it was always going to be a problem, and it's easy to see a situation when the EEC take a tough unified line and we will be unable to cross the North Sea or the Channel until our fuel systems are completely clear of red diesel.

Whether with white diesel there could be an appropriate duty split for those who genuinely do use some of their diesel for heating I don't know.

 

[wingdiver]

.

Whether with white diesel there could be an appropriate duty split for those who genuinely do use some of their diesel for heating I don't know.

There ought to be something as the 60:40 split is a bit of a laugh as many people use their diesel for propulsion and gas to cook. Some may use a bit of diesel for heating if they are brave enough to come down to the boat in the cooler months but often use electric heating.
Others, especially liveaboards, use diesel for cooking all year round and a lot for heating over winter with the propulsion amount being far less proportionaltely.
We fall into the latter category. As we use the boat far less in winter, I tend to fill in the autumn 60:40 (to account for summer cruise and greater use) and the spring 100% domestic, which is pretty much the reality of our use.

I think you are quite right about the issues being worse because of our stance.
I suppose, at some stage, there should have been an agreement for the marinas to convert to white with commercial users being able to get a discount. I find it hard to agree with people using cheap red (intended for peoples own plant or commercial vessels) for leisure use.
That still leaves problems in commercial harbours where the red will be the only fuel available.
Overall, it shouldn't be an issue to show a Belgian customs officer a receipt for red diesel showing that you have paid full duty for the propulstion element and that should suffice.
Perhaps we should take them to the Court of Human Rights as our position as payers of tax in an EU country are being undermined.......

The simple way

 

[wingdiver]

Nobody has been fined.
Nobody has been arrested
Loads of us have been to Oostende
There isn't a problem.
If you want to go, go.
We'll be there next weekend (although the weather is looking as though it might have a say)

Not a dig at you but.......
People have been fined. Not many, but some have.
People went to Oostende for the Vor Anker festival this year without the fear of their diesel being investigated because they were advised that the 'powers that be' had put a stop to that happening as they wanted us Brits over there (and our money obviously).
If I go and get stopped and have full tanks and get fined even €1 a litre, that could be €1500 down the toilet. I don't intend to risk that, even if the man in the pub/man on the internet says it will not happen. Would anyone else in their right mind?
I will only go back when it has been properly resolved.
I may have to force myself to go 'Ooop North' next summer......

 

[Koeketiene]

If I go and get stopped and have full tanks and get fined even €1 a litre, that could be €1500 down the toilet.

Should you fall foul of the Douane, it's a fixed fine of €575.

The Dutch do take the size/content of your tank into account.

 

[wingdiver]

Should you fall foul of the Douane, it's a fixed fine of €575.

The Dutch do take the size/content of your tank into account.

It's a lot of beer vouchers either way.

 

[Otter]

Yachting Monthly report that "a number of British yachtsmen have been fined". Of course that number may be five or fifty, but I couldn't just shrug off a £500 fine.

 

[Koeketiene]

Yachting Monthly report that "a number of British yachtsmen have been fined".

Dick Durham article?

1. There are no more than 5 documented cases of Brits having been fined in Belgium over the last 6 years.
2. None in the last 12 months.
3. 18 months ago, two owners of Belgian flagged yachts were fined for having red in their tank. These yacht owners had deep pockets and armed with expensive lawyers they took Belgian customs to court. Court ruled in their favour, saying they could not be fined as long as the EU had not made a final ruling on this issue. This ruling is expected 'some time in 2013'.
4. The official stance remains that you can/will be fined for having red in your tanks.
5. In practise: Customs is short of manpower and is not inclined to 'waste' manpower pursuing a minor issue. Of course, should you be stopped and found in breach of other rules/regs or get stroppy with them, they may well go to town and throw the book at you.

Now, I'm not going down the 'toad of toad hall / Tim Bartlett' route and respond to demands ofor chapter and verse regarding rules/laws/court rulings etc... Do your own research.

I have been told the above by the RNSYC HM - a personal friend of long standing - and I have no reason not to believe him.

 

[Otter]

You may be right. And if you put £500 into an escrow account, payable to the Belgian authorities should I be fined, then I promise to go and try Belgium again.

Meanwhile they've demonstrated just how much they want our tourist pounds.

 

[sailorman]

You may be right. And if you put £500 into an escrow account, payable to the Belgian authorities should I be fined, then I promise to go and try Belgium again.

Meanwhile they've demonstrated just how much they want our tourist pounds.

are you "On the make" i make it only £431

 

[nortada]

Dick Durham article?

1. There are no more than 5 documented cases of Brits having been fined in Belgium over the last 6 years.
2. None in the last 12 months.
3. 18 months ago, two owners of Belgian flagged yachts were fined for having red in their tank. These yacht owners had deep pockets and armed with expensive lawyers they took Belgian customs to court. Court ruled in their favour, saying they could not be fined as long as the EU had not made a final ruling on this issue. This ruling is expected 'some time in 2013'.
4. The official stance remains that you can/will be fined for having red in your tanks.
5. In practise: Customs is short of manpower and is not inclined to 'waste' manpower pursuing a minor issue. Of course, should you be stopped and found in breach of other rules/regs or get stroppy with them, they may well go to town and throw the book at you.

Now, I'm not going down the 'toad of toad hall / Tim Bartlett' route and respond to demands ofor chapter and verse regarding rules/laws/court rulings etc... Do your own research.

I have been told the above by the RNSYC HM - a personal friend of long standing - and I have no reason not to believe him.

Is RNSYC HM - RNSA? Reason I ask is that, as I understand it RNSA, like RAFSA, is just another sailing association with no special official standing, certainly not HM, that would be HMASTC, at HMS Hornet, Gosport - bit far from Belgium, they tend to head south or west.

No reason to doubt your friend's advice but question any official qualification?

 

[Koeketiene]

You may be right. And if you put £500 into an escrow account, payable to the Belgian authorities should I be fined, then I promise to go and try Belgium again.

1. This is not about me being right or wrong and I don't remember guaranteeing anything.
2. The temporary and unofficial 'cease-fire' is the result of a prosecution of Belgian boats with red diesel - nothing to do with Brits at all.

Meanwhile they've demonstrated just how much they want our tourist pounds.

I have yet to see starving kids in Ostend because there have been fewer UK boats.

Below a couple of pictures taken in Ostend last Summer - not a red ensign in sight and the place is not exactly empty.

 

[Koeketiene]

Is RNSYC HM - RNSA? Reason I ask is that, as I understand it RNSA, like RAFSA, is just another sailing association with no special official standing, certainly not HM, that would be HMASTC, at HMS Hornet, Gosport - bit far from Belgium, they tend to head south or west.

No reason to doubt your friend's advice but question any official qualification?

RNSYC HM: Royal North Sea Yacht Club Harbour Master.

In a former life has was a member of the Belgian Maritime Police and is still very well connected.

 

[nortada]

RNSYC HM: Royal North Sea Yacht Club Harbour Master.

In a former life has was a member of the Belgian Maritime Police and is still very well connected.

Sorry, my mistake

Fortunately, Belgium is not on my list of places to revisit in the near future - if ever!

Would rather head south to the sun.

 

[Koeketiene]

Sorry, my mistake

 

[sailorman]

RNSYC HM: Royal North Sea Yacht Club Harbour Master.

In a former life has was a member of the Belgian Maritime Police and is still very well connected.

Here he is as a boy

 

[nortada]

Back to the main debate - unfortunately, on this subject (as with many issues) the UK is way out of step with the rest of Europe.

That's what makes us an island (rather than a continental) race.

The Brits don't really fit in Europe?

Yes, we spend nearly half our lives in Portugal but still love to come home to the UK, with its different ways. We have the best of both worlds - so long may the differences last.

Oh - red diesel in Portugal - no problem (except for the cost) we can't get it, so a good excuse for a trip to Ayamonte (Andalusia) for sherry, where diesel is a bit cheaper, or Gib, where diesel is really cheap & we can top up at Tesco etc. But Iceland has just arrived in Portiamao & Primart is on its way so is this progress?

Sorry way off thread!

 

[Otter]

are you "On the make" i make it only £431

I promise to donate the excess to the Distressed Belgian Beaurocrats Benevolant Fund. Or Guapa could buy the ECF a beer or two from the change

 

[neale]

not a red ensign in sight

Apart from the one slap bang in the middle and towards the top of the first picture