Red Diesel in Holland

[waterboy]

Re: I just called the Customs Office

[ QUOTE ]
They are the Dutch after all, not the facist French customs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have I been lucky? My Ben 411 has a fairly small tank for its size - 35 gallons, so have, for the past few years, been taking to France another 80 litres in 4 jerry cans. Phew. No one ever checked.
BTW. When filling in the Channel Islands, is that not white diesel and indistinguishable from the stuff sold in France? Therefore, quite legal in my jerry cans.

 

[Bergman]

Re: I just called the Customs Office

This seems to be somewhat at odds with statements from your embassy in the UK.

A major part of the issue is the fact that there are so many different opinions as to what is the true situation.

I have already called off our trip to Holland next month. I am not going to risk several hundred pounds on the whim of some customs officer.

 

[Otter]

Re: I just called the Customs Office

[ QUOTE ]
Have I been lucky?

[/ QUOTE ] I was thinking more of their paperwork and flares check.

 

[heerenleed]

Re: I just called the Customs Office

I can (and will) try... I'll look up their email and ask the same question again, to see what they come up with. But honestly, I can't imagine any custom officer to fine you for having legal red diesel.
cheers

 

[heerenleed]

Re: I just called the Customs Office

The embassy are the politicians. Do I need to tell you Brits with a Prime Minister named the way he is, that they always lie? But the custom officers are the ones that do the job. I tend to blelieve them...
cheers

 

[heerenleed]

Done!

I have sent an email to the Ministry of Finance, under which the customs resort. I will keep you informed of their answer, may take at least 48 hours
cheers

 

[rogerthebodger]

Re: I just called the Customs Office

[ QUOTE ]

But the custom officers are the ones that do the job


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and the prime function of customs is to get as much money for the goverment of the country they can and it they can get it from some visitor the better as there is little change of any comeback from a visitor to their country.

Customs officers I have found in all the countries I deal with consider then to be above the law and in some cases (South Africa included) are backed up by sections which breach the publics basic human rights.
(I can quote chapter and verse from the SA customs act)

This needs to be pushed else all EU citisans will slowly slowly have all their basic rights removed and ironically it is in the Netherlands that the court of human rights is located.

 

[sailorman]

Re: I just called the Customs Office

Thanks Peter
i was hoping you pick-up on this problem & give the correct interpretaition re customs.
we might see you in Steenbergen then after all (we should be in de nederlands 03/07 )
cheers
roger

 

[alec]

I'll be going - too old to worry about this sort of thing.

Odds against anything bad happening must be very low.

Last time I went got an infected molar. That was expensive !

 

[PeterGibbs]

This is incorrect. Foreign registered and captained small craft are exempt from red diesel regulations that apply to nationals.
Having loads of red diesel in portable tanks on board could be a provocation during an inspection, so keep it reasonable; the Dutch are entitled as in other countries to assume that portable tanks are for trading which is not allowed for anyone.

I go every year to Holland with my vessel and have never had any problems or queries in this regard. You would be restricting yourself unnecessarily if you adopted a negative approach, which, incidentally, you would have to apply to all other EU countries not permitting red diesel to nationals!

Looking ahead to the to loss of the red diesel concession in the Uk at the end of 2008, the RYA had better insist that UK nationals are NOT obliged to purge their tanks of red as of that date, otherwise all hell will break loose. PLUS we must insist on the continuing right to purchase red in the Channel Islands.

PWG

 

[quaelgeist2]

Well - looks like the crowded marinas during vacation months will be a bit more comfortable this year.
Not sure I understand why. If you folks want to work yourself into a state of excitement and anger - go ahead.

For those who care: Germany is more than the same and has been like that for years. Customs can fine you even for traces of previously used red diesel (which leaves its stains for quite sometime) -> something I am interested to see that handled in the UK after 2008 BTW.
If you can prove that you have filled-up where it is legal (UK, BE) and can prove with receipt AND do not give the impression that you want to cheat (e.g. 10000L tank quick dash across to Belgium, buying 9990L and quickly back) you're offthe hook.

That's how we prefer it, I thought. Rules that allow for some reasonable interpretation. That's by the way also the basis for the Dutch attitude towards drugs - not that anyone believes that stuff is legal in NL.

Flying the red duster myself, I am uncertain about the extent of sadness when seeing less others around, though.

So keep the feelings up, guys!

NB: Yes, I have taken cheap red all the time in BE and UK as well as on Helgoland - and I am not talking wine. Ah yes - 20 gallons = full tank

 

[heerenleed]

Rediculous answer by the Taxman. I will keep pestering them.

I received a silly answer of the taxman explaining the difference between red and white diesel and stating that it is illegal to use red diesel in yachts. Yeah right. I mailed them back telling them to read my question properly before answering. I will keep bothering them until they do. I'll keep you all posted.

Cheers

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: Rediculous answer by the Taxman. I will keep pestering them.

I (and the other two skippers) have now cancelled the part of a three mobo cruise that would have taken a few days in Holland after visiting Belgium. I have replied to the standard email from the Dutch Embassy advising them of this, and also advising that I have requiested my MEPs to raise the matter. I have also pointed out that a suitably worded (in Dutch as well as English) document ensuring that UK boaters are not penalised for commiting a legal action, could easily be supplied by the Dutch and would recitify the problem quite rapidly and damp down the increase of hostility to the EU among UK boaters.

I await a reply, if any.

 

[sailorman]

Re: Rediculous answer by the Taxman. I will keep pestering them.

we still plan to arrive early July.
nice full tank + invoice , fingers x
any probs we will coastal cruise Belgium & France & they can have our hoilday euros instead of Holland
we have enjoyed many many Dutch holidays & HOPE TO CONTINUE /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[heerenleed]

update post

Finally, i received a more or less usable answer from the tax office.
I put it in a new post here
cheers
peter

 

[Gwylan]

Re: update post

I seem to have problems finding the response that you posted. As the victim of this action I'm really keen to see what the Customs have to say for themselves

 

[Emjaytoo]

The RYA on Red Diesel

Published on the RYA Website on 15th June.

[ QUOTE ]
We are not aware of any instances of yachts carrying UK-purchased red diesel in integral tanks with proof of purchase by reference to invoices and logged engine hours etc. being fined by authorities in other EU member states. If we are informed of any such instances then we will, of course, investigate and contact the relevant authorities.

[/ QUOTE ]

So Gwylan, how come the RYA haven't heard of your case?

 

[Gwylan]

Re: The RYA on Red Diesel

Read between the lines!
I did not expect to have to produce a receipt a couple of weeks after arriving in the Netherlands and declaring my arrival. They did not bother to look at my log which recorder the taking on of fuel.

The RYA do know about my case, but there is the vexed issue of the invoice.
What they say is true, but ....

 

[happydart]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not organise a boycott? Sadly a few hits of poor unsuspecting folk will more than outweigh the loss of custom from our (uk boats) visitations. I for one will personally write to the Dutch to say I am cancelling my planned trip to Holland. (Do they also nail the Belgians?)

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes they also nail the Belgians,and of 1-1-2008 the Belgian boatowners must have clean white diesel tanks ,anybody will be fined by Belgian customs/police also.
If you came from a country with different law you must show on paper the red diesel was bought legal theire.
I would like to point out that a holliday in Belgium or Holland even with white diesel is still a lot cheaper than in the UK ...moorings are cheap or even free and the beer is the best in the world in Belgium /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[LadyInBed]

The latest that I have is this:

Dutch Customs/Red Diesel (1174/07)
Graham Watson MEP Constituency Office [euro_office@cix.co.uk]

Thank you for your email of 4th June and for forwarding to this office copies of your correspondence with the Dutch Embassy in London. Please accept my apologies for the delay in replying.

The concern you raise is one which was previously brought to Graham’s attention by another constituent who sailed from the UK to Holland. We are currently awaiting a response from Christine Korcz, a contact at the DTI’s Solvit Department who specialises in cross-border legal problems such as this, on this matter.

I will endeavour to keep you updated on developments.

Yours sincerely,

Andy Dunne

Office of Graham Watson MEP

Member of the European Parliament for South West England and Gibraltar and

Leader of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe in the European Parliament