gjgm
Well-Known Member
So, marina storage tanks aside, is it possibile to sell white at 60/40 ?
Red Diesel can only be used in UK Waters!
- Thread starter MystereMarcus
- Start date
neale
Well-Known Member
I give up
The main issue with this will be the possibility of using 60/40 fuel in your car and the loss of revenue. I don't think we'll see this outcome, although it would be the best result all around, providing they use Fame Free white
ian38_39
Well-Known Member
It does not take many jerry cans to be filled at the fuel pontoon to fill your car, that is the problem with white. There is not a hope in hell of getting 60/40 white. and if it were ever passed you can bet your granny on the fact that pretty soon there would be a Broom with a 5000 gallon fuel tank and a strange fitting on the side of the hull.
rlw
Well-Known Member
As a Belgian who does most of his boating in Holland I think the perspective of the Belgian customs is that they do not want red diesel in pleasureboats or anything else the is on the water or on the roads. They have spent years stamping out fraud mainly on the roads only to open up a loophole again.They don't want EU boats going to the UK as this gives the Belgians/Dutch/French an excuse to start putting red in their tanks again I always thought the UK deciscion to go for the 60/40 split with red was a bit shortsighted for boaters that would be crossing the channel. I'ts a bit easy to say that having white and red pumps on the water is not possible when the rest Europe has implented this over the past years without too many problems. For me I either fill up with white in a Marina or head to a fuel barge/station that sells both. At max is has meant a reduction of 20% in the fuelling stations I would use.
I used to legally put red diesel in my tanks and went through the change to white diesel. An yes it does mean you cannot fill up at some commercial stations that don't carry white and red diesel. As much a I have fond memories of filling up with cheap red diesel and looking for creative solutions to justify this in the interim period the practical impact has been negligable. Also from a cost perspective the rising fuel prices have had a larger effect than the switch from white to red. Also white diesel eliminates the mixing in of heating oil to the red diesel. There have been some reports with problems on the new D series in Holland where owners of large boats af filled up with cheap red in Belgium and had injector problems and volvo refused to honor the warranty based on fuel tests.
When I bought my boat in Mallorca 2 years ago I was very happy that it had no trace of red diesel and was correctly filled with white as this allows me to boat in Holland and Belgium without any customs stress. That said we were contemplating a trip to the UK last summer but given the fuel hassle we will probably give it a miss untill this is sorted out.
Rob
I used to legally put red diesel in my tanks and went through the change to white diesel. An yes it does mean you cannot fill up at some commercial stations that don't carry white and red diesel. As much a I have fond memories of filling up with cheap red diesel and looking for creative solutions to justify this in the interim period the practical impact has been negligable. Also from a cost perspective the rising fuel prices have had a larger effect than the switch from white to red. Also white diesel eliminates the mixing in of heating oil to the red diesel. There have been some reports with problems on the new D series in Holland where owners of large boats af filled up with cheap red in Belgium and had injector problems and volvo refused to honor the warranty based on fuel tests.
When I bought my boat in Mallorca 2 years ago I was very happy that it had no trace of red diesel and was correctly filled with white as this allows me to boat in Holland and Belgium without any customs stress. That said we were contemplating a trip to the UK last summer but given the fuel hassle we will probably give it a miss untill this is sorted out.
Rob
rafiki_
Well-Known Member
Rob,
I guess it is much more challenging logistically in the UK to have white and red pumps in Marina's, as with our length of coastline, we have many more Marina's than Belgium, and much of Eu. Possibly Italy, Greece and Spain may have longish coastlines?
I guess it is much more challenging logistically in the UK to have white and red pumps in Marina's, as with our length of coastline, we have many more Marina's than Belgium, and much of Eu. Possibly Italy, Greece and Spain may have longish coastlines?
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Piers
Well-Known Member
Don't forget that the Channel Islands are not part of the UK and nor are they part of the EU. They are simply part of the British Isles. So red is welcome in the Channel islands.
mm1
Well-Known Member
so what will happen when Guernsey boats go to France? & what colour is diesel in Gib,regards mm1.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
It's your perogative to give up of course. I'll await with interest the first stories of ferries and fishing boats being fined and impounded as they enter French or Belgian waters with red diesel in their tanks ???
gjgm
Well-Known Member
I give up
The main issue with this will be the possibility of using 60/40 fuel in your car and the loss of revenue.
Yep, ok...
ian38_39
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately this is the roll over as far as UK Gov is concerned.
There has been more effort than I think a lot of people expected put into the UK's right to use red diesel from official sources but boaters were never going to be the general public's greatest concern.
Unfortunately they have obviously had enough and can't be bothered with what to do now to make any system workable.
There has been more effort than I think a lot of people expected put into the UK's right to use red diesel from official sources but boaters were never going to be the general public's greatest concern.
Unfortunately they have obviously had enough and can't be bothered with what to do now to make any system workable.
Stork_III
Well-Known Member
Ferries and fishing boats are not private leisure craft, which what the fuss is all about.
neale
Well-Known Member
We are talking about leisure boats here though. Commercial is a completely different thing.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
But the difference between fuel for leisure boats and fuel for commercial boats is the crux of the issue, so if you haven't been considering commercial boats then its no surprise we haven't understood each other. That's what the Belgians are objecting to - when they find red diesel in a leisure boat, how do they know whether it is commercial tax free diesel bought illegally from a farmer (or fisherman!), or pukka 60% tax paid red diesel bought legally from a UK marina. They want the UK to stop selling tax paid red diesel, so they know that any red diesel they do find has not had tax paid.
I'd only add that this is prima facie the case, though as i've said many times, I suspect this is a tactic to ultimately try and get rid of the 60/40 split.
longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
But as Piers has already asked, what about boats who fill up in CIs and then go to France, lots of them do and I for one only ever fill up with (red) diesel in Guernsey for which I have an appropriate receipt. Will they, the French, start fining every boat that goes across from SPP, Braye or St Helier, or indeed every French boat that goes to CIs and fills up with cheap diesel and then returns home? I think not!
neale
Well-Known Member
I think St Helier sells white diesel.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting question, and my guess is the EU have chosen to ignore that problem for now because a.) its a smaller issue, and b.) there's less they can do about it.
If an EU resident boat owner buys duty and tax free fuel in Guernsey, with the intent of using it in EU waters, then I guess technically they are importing the fuel and should declare it and pay tax and duty, although there may be some special provisions for fuels, I don't know.
neale
Well-Known Member
But even if he pays tax on it, it is still red so they will be in the same situation as we are in now.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Fair point, so I guess the EU just ignore the problem because they can't do much about it?
PCUK
Well-Known Member
Simple solution
Leave the poxy EU - and solve all our other problems at the same time!
Leave the poxy EU - and solve all our other problems at the same time!
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
AFAIK, there is a dispensation to allow CI registered boats to visit EU waters on a temporary basis without paying VAT on the boat so I guess the same dispensation applies to the duty/VAT on the diesel in those boats. Yes I agree, if an EU registered boat imports anything from the CI into the EU, including fuel, he would be liable for VAT and duty. But I guess HMRC or French customs don't see this as an issue worth pursuing because boats have been filling up in the CI before cruising on to France or UK since forever and nobody has been bothered about it