Red Diesel can only be used in UK Waters!

mm1 said:
still not sure why WE ALL (including fishermen)can't use white & get a rebate ? mm1.
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Because fraud would become rampant.....

For me the key point is whether this makes it more likely to get a fine from French (or whoever) customs. Thinking about it, the answer is probably yes if our duty paid receipt has a signed declaration that the fuel is only for use in UK waters. Very hard to argue.

However the French could enforce this today, like the Belgians seem to, but don't.

To MBM - will you be contact French and Dutch customs for their opinion?
 
Dear Sailorman
The RYA has now released a press release on this which can be viewed at: http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/RYAchallengesHMRCproposals.aspx

Despite our regular discussions with HMRC, yesterday’s announcement by them was made before we had been given the chance to comment on the proposed declaration and had reached an agreement on its wording. The press statement makes it clear that the RYA is dissatisfied with this approach and we have said as much to HMRC. We continue to discuss the Government’s intent with HMRC in order to make it clear that their current proposal is unacceptable.

Regards

Stuart Carruthers RYA
 
No change there from this govt then. They're treating the Red Diesel issue like the Health Service; make an edict & just ignore the complaints. Wonderful stuff this "democracy" innit? Dy'a think Call me Dave has been watching Mad Vlad Putin too much?
 
sailorman said:
Dear Sailorman
The RYA has now released a press release on this which can be viewed at: http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/RYAchallengesHMRCproposals.aspx

Despite our regular discussions with HMRC, yesterday’s announcement by them was made before we had been given the chance to comment on the proposed declaration and had reached an agreement on its wording. The press statement makes it clear that the RYA is dissatisfied with this approach and we have said as much to HMRC. We continue to discuss the Government’s intent with HMRC in order to make it clear that their current proposal is unacceptable.

Regards

Stuart Carruthers RYA
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I thought the RYA response was done quite well.
The point they make about international waters is totally valid and shows how badly worded the proposals are without even mentioning other nations.
The HMRC proposals, their impact assessment etc and their announcement without proper consultation first with the likes of the RYA confirms to me that we really do employ a load of totally useless people in Whitehall.
 
Searush said:
No change there from this govt then. They're treating the Red Diesel issue like the Health Service; make an edict & just ignore the complaints. Wonderful stuff this "democracy" innit? Dy'a think Call me Dave has been watching Mad Vlad Putin too much?
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From what I see, this Govt is trying really hard to recover the various messes left by the previous lot. Many of the things they are doing, I am sure they would prefer no to, as there are not many votes in it for them. Still, they have an alternative, and lose control of the finances.

Would you rather be where the Greeks are now?
 
MBM_Greg said:
Today’s news of the HM Revenue & Customs’ decision to ban the use of red diesel outside UK waters has sent a tremor though the entire marine industry.

MBM’s new story on the website outlines the proposal and touches on the effects it will have on motorboaters. However, we are currently in the process of talking to HMRC, Chloe Smith MP, the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, and Gus Lewis, Head of GovernmentAffairs.

We will update our website as soon as we have any new information.There’ll also be comment on the subject in the April issue of MBM.
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But they haven't banned it. They cannot do that as they have no legislative powers outside of the UK.
Please, less of the inaccurate incorrect banner type headlines.
 
Nick_H said:
There's little to no chance of it being checked in SoF Jimmy, as there is nowhere nearby where it could be bought, so its only an issue for boats arriving from the UK by ship or truck, which probably isn't a substantial enough issue for the Douanes to worry about. It's also not the French really pushing this, but the Belgians and Dutch as mentioned above.
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I was boarded by Douanes in SoF (Frioul) about 5 yrs ago and they never bothered checking for red diesel or VAT paid status either. The only things they seem interested in were the reg certificate, insurance docs and safety gear on board. I wouldn't lose any sleep over red diesel contamination of the fuel system in SoF. In any case, there's nothing much Jimmy can do about it as its going to take more than 1 tank of white diesel to get rid of the red dye
 
mm1 said:
still not sure why WE ALL (including fishermen)can't use white & get a rebate ? mm1.
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Because it would be an administrative nightmare, cost loadsamoney to manage and be open to fraud
 
Talulah said:
I thought the RYA response was done quite well.
The point they make about international waters is totally valid and shows how badly worded the proposals are without even mentioning other nations.
The HMRC proposals, their impact assessment etc and their announcement without proper consultation first with the likes of the RYA confirms to me that we really do employ a load of totally useless people in Whitehall.
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HMRC dont mention international waters, unless I missed that?
They say that being outside UK waters you "will be subject to the restrictions and prohibitions of other memebr states"
Assuming the French cant fine you outside French waters, HMRC seems accurate?
 
sailorman said:
So then how are the Continentals able to do it then
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Because its only commercial users that do it, not pleasure boat owners. If you had pleasure boat owners reclaiming duty as well as commercial users, it would require a huge organisation to manage it and police it, including regular inspections of pleasure boat owners' receipts otherwise fraud would be rife
 
gjgm said:
HMRC dont mention international waters, unless I missed that?
They say that being outside UK waters you "will be subject to the restrictions and prohibitions of other memebr states"
Assuming the French cant fine you outside French waters, HMRC seems accurate?
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Its the use of the word only
The measure provides that red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft can only be used in UK waters. All purchasers of red diesel for use as fuel for propelling private pleasure craft will be required to sign a declaration to that effect. All purchasers will be made aware that if they travel outside UK waters they will be subject to the restrictions and prohibitions of other Member States.
 
At least we know what the situation is now.
If you go is a chance you may get approached.
Probably as good a reason as any for rigidly keeping to rules,keeping a low profile and not attracting unwanted attention.
Do wonder if the boats that were fined had done something else to warrant inspection ?
 
oldgit said:
At least we know what the situation is now.
If you go is a chance you may get approached.
Probably as good a reason as any for rigidly keeping to rules,keeping a low profile and not attracting unwanted attention.
Do wonder if the boats that were fined had done something else to warrant inspection ?
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that is very relevant & has been mentioned before
 
sailorman said:
So then how are the Continentals able to do it then
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In France they have two completely seperate storage tanks and pumps. You advise the fuel seller whether you want commercial or leisure fuel, and if you want commercial (ie. no duty), then you have to show the relevant papers, which are all photocopied by the fuel seller in case they have an inspection. If you don't have all the correct papers, then you have to buy 100% duty paid fuel. I think the duty free fuel is dyed green

The UK rejected this option at the end of the derogation because a.) it would mean capital investment for fuel sellers to install extra tanks and pumps, and b.) HMRC accepted arguments from the BMA/RYA and whoever else that a fair proportion of the fuel purchased by boaters was used for heating, and it's impractical for all boats to have two seperate fuel tanks.
 
I don’t understand why the Belgians have to be blamed for a situation in UK;

Belgium was the last country in mainland Europe (I believe in 2006) that forbid the use of red diesel for leisure boating.
The first year after introduction of this law, there have been a few controll campaigns from customs.
The last two years I have not heard of ANY fines for using red diesel, nor any controls from customs.
On a Belgium boat forum, nobody could tell me of a recent case of customs control nor a fine.
Would be interested if somebody on here could tell us a real case.

I’ve seen a cominiqué from Dhr. Cockuyt, Gewestelijk Directeur van Douane en Accijnzen, dd 10 june 2010, that a more “reasonable” policy will be used against red diesel usage, knowing the problem of boaters sailing from UK in to Belgium.

Apart from that, I don’t see the problem, when you come to Belgium, boat partially filled with red Diesel, you go to a Belgium harbour, and fill up with white diesel, cheaper then your red (even at 60/40).
Refueling you have to do anyway in most cases.
Keep the receipt and you'r save.

I do appreciate the reason for red Diesel in UK, (as explained in post #38 by NickH), but do realize that this is a UK only regulation and exception with benefit for UK boaters.
Belgium has adapted to Europe regulations just as all other mainland Europe country’s. If there is someone to blame then it is your government who chooses to handle different rules then other Europe country’s.

Ones again; white diesel in marina’s in Belgium is cheaper then your marine red at 60/40 split (at least it was in September 2010 and September 2011)
 
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