gjgm
Well-Known Member
Last edited:
Red Diesel can only be used in UK Waters!
- Thread starter MystereMarcus
- Start date
acbruce
Well-Known Member
And what now for foreign travel
And where are we supposed to get fuel in order to go to France etc? Does anyone sell white in the Solent? I take 1500 litres to fill so cans not really a aviable option.
And are we supposed to get tanks emptied and cleaned to elimnate the red? Or what concentration of dye will be acceptable to French and Belgians etc as residual from the days when it was legal?
And suppose we are on passage for the Channel Islands and have to divert to France for safety reasons?
What a bloody mess! It seems that we are to be trapped in the UK and Channel Islands from now on.
And where are we supposed to get fuel in order to go to France etc? Does anyone sell white in the Solent? I take 1500 litres to fill so cans not really a aviable option.
And are we supposed to get tanks emptied and cleaned to elimnate the red? Or what concentration of dye will be acceptable to French and Belgians etc as residual from the days when it was legal?
And suppose we are on passage for the Channel Islands and have to divert to France for safety reasons?
What a bloody mess! It seems that we are to be trapped in the UK and Channel Islands from now on.
Greg2
Well-Known Member
I quite agree that this is a bit of a mess but I take heart from the section explaining the context to the change in legislation. In short, it appears that the objective is to enable leisure boaters to continue to benefit from reduced revenue for diesel used for domestic purposes and to avoid a challenge to the practice from Europe, which could result in full duty being applied to 100% of red.
It is a change in stance from our govt but is it a pragmatic one??
It is a change in stance from our govt but is it a pragmatic one??
gjgm
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree.
If you "cant" use Uk red in EU, then this isnt changing anything, just reminding you. So far, isnt it only Belgium that is fussed?
UK boating hardly needs to lose its cheaper fuel right now.. the emptiness of marinas is a sign of this.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
There's little to no chance of it being checked in SoF Jimmy, as there is nowhere nearby where it could be bought, so its only an issue for boats arriving from the UK by ship or truck, which probably isn't a substantial enough issue for the Douanes to worry about. It's also not the French really pushing this, but the Belgians and Dutch as mentioned above.
With regard to the HMRC doc, it's factually incorrect in that it claims there is no compliance cost for individuals, whereas of course, if the individual wants to take their boat to Europe then there is a compliance cost, probably the need for a seperate fuel tank and switching system. They also don't consider the logistical problems of obtaining white diesel in large quantities before entering foreign waters.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
Isnt it saying that there is no compliance cost to this HMRC measure ..re boating in UK waters?
If you choose to go elsewhere,that is then outside HMRC measure anyway?
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
There is no challenge to the level of duty being applied in the UK, and no attempt to get full duty charged on red diesel. The challenge concerns a technicality (ie. marking requirements). All HMRC have done is confirm the current situation on duty, but they've capitulated on the technicality point without any concessions to make it practical for UK boaters to sail to Europe. I think the reason is that they've only considered impacts on businesses (ie. fuel sellers), without any consideration of impacts on boaters.
Edit: On reflection, my last sentence is probably unfair. If the EU had its way, then we would all need to fit two tanks anyway, one for white diesel for propulsion, and one for red diesel for domestic. In reality, most boats would just buy 100% white (full duty) diesel rather than incur the capital cost of the extra tank, so the HMRC approach probably is pragmatic if they think they would lose the case anyway, in that it ultimately retains the 60/40 split without the capital cost of two tanks, or the need to prove the domestic element, for the majority of boaters who don't sail outside UK waters.
Last edited:
Piers
Well-Known Member
Play d'eau is kept in Guernsey where all boat diesel is red. Will that pose a problem when going into non UK and non British Isles waters? I have 3,500 litres on board which tends to last at least one season.
MBM_Greg
Well-Known Member
Today’s news of the HM Revenue & Customs’ decision to ban the use of red diesel outside UK waters has sent a tremor though the entire marine industry.
MBM’s new story on the website outlines the proposal and touches on the effects it will have on motorboaters. However, we are currently in the process of talking to HMRC, Chloe Smith MP, the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, and Gus Lewis, Head of GovernmentAffairs.
We will update our website as soon as we have any new information.There’ll also be comment on the subject in the April issue of MBM.
MBM’s new story on the website outlines the proposal and touches on the effects it will have on motorboaters. However, we are currently in the process of talking to HMRC, Chloe Smith MP, the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, and Gus Lewis, Head of GovernmentAffairs.
We will update our website as soon as we have any new information.There’ll also be comment on the subject in the April issue of MBM.
Last edited:
Piers
Well-Known Member
One glimmer of hope...the Channel Islands are not part of the UK but part of the British Isles. Maybe it'll be OK then...?
MystereMarcus
Well-Known Member
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Eh? The HMRC link in the OP doesn't mention anything about banning red diesel? Is this a new development?
yesod
Well-Known Member
errr, wasn't the point that they have not banned the use of red diesel in uk waters. rather they've acknowledged that dyed fuel may be illegal elsewhere and its up to you to avoid red if you want a bit of foreign...
MystereMarcus
Well-Known Member
This is interesting in that the issue is that an EU member state is dying diesel used for propulsion. If you turn up in Belgium etc. with a tank of red diesel and a receipt to prove it was purchased in the CI's then there shouldn't be a problem.
MBM_Greg
Well-Known Member
I'm hoping that's a typo
Sorry - we were seeing if you are all paying attention. Well done
mm1
Well-Known Member
IT'S GOOD THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN THIS ONBOARD(scuse the pun)I hope the RYA take an equally hard look @ this.The French will love this now they know our goverment don't care! all the British boats in Cherb will get a visit from plod tanks dipped,o dear.red diesel that will be 1000euro's please,no arguing pay up!.
why on earth can't we all use white & claim an amount back in our annual tax bill!or is that too simple,regards mm1
MBM_Greg
Well-Known Member
if anyone disagrees with Red Diesel being banned in EU waters, you can object to it by letting the HMRC know your view.
We have until 11 March to propose the ban.
Click here to visit the HMRC Red Diesel website
We have until 11 March to propose the ban.
Click here to visit the HMRC Red Diesel website
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
because fuel suppliers would then need two independent storage tanks, red for commercial traffic, and white for leisure traffic, or if this wasn't commercially viable they may just not sell fuel to leisure boaters at all. The use of red was retained for these reasons.
If you believe them, the EU don't have such a problem with the 60/40 split, but they don't like the fact that we buy duty paid fuel marked the same colour as commercial non duty paid fuel. They claim (and you can kind of see their point), that boaters could fill their boats with illegally obtained non duty paid red diesel, and customs staff could never tell the difference. If this was really their concern, then maybe a second dye could be added at point of sale (say blue), so leisure boaters buy purple diesel
In reality of course, the EU know that the 60/40 split is pretty generous for most boaters, and the marking technicality claim is probably their way of trying to force UK boaters to buy 100% duty paid fuel. You could fit a seperate tank for domestic of course, and still fill it with red diesel, but I guess you can already do this anywhere else in Europe as well.
mm1
Well-Known Member
still not sure why WE ALL (including fishermen)can't use white & get a rebate ? mm1.
