alant
Well-Known Member
EEC going to ban it next year?
Red Diesel - back on TV news this am
- Thread starter alant
- Start date
awol
Well-Known Member
... and about time!
stephenmartin
Well-Known Member
Stop scare mongering
It said the tax on red diesel is being reviewed and many boaters will be forced to give up sailing if the tax is increased...I saw the program too...as english is my first language I had no problems understanding it...
If many boaters are forced off the sea then it will have an adverse affect on the marine industry "per se"...ergo spares and chandlery items will have to go up to make up the difference....and the only one left to pay will be the rich mobo's and yotties....
Do you have any feet left to shoot or stuff in your mouth
It said the tax on red diesel is being reviewed and many boaters will be forced to give up sailing if the tax is increased...I saw the program too...as english is my first language I had no problems understanding it...
If many boaters are forced off the sea then it will have an adverse affect on the marine industry "per se"...ergo spares and chandlery items will have to go up to make up the difference....and the only one left to pay will be the rich mobo's and yotties....
Do you have any feet left to shoot or stuff in your mouth
savageseadog
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Stop scare mongering
It said the tax on red diesel is being reviewed and many boaters will be forced to give up sailing if the tax is increased
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't you mean yachtsmen will have to do more sailing.
Stop scare mongering
It said the tax on red diesel is being reviewed and many boaters will be forced to give up sailing if the tax is increased
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't you mean yachtsmen will have to do more sailing.
Toryboy1
Well-Known Member
I have a 28hp auxillary engine and would not be too bothered if the red diesel concession were abolished, it would add a few percent to my overall costs, but might have the advantage of driving asome of the big power boats off the sea, a good thing IMHO. Generally, it would be much better all round if there were far fewer people afloat anyway. And it's bad ecconomics to say it would make things more expensive- lower demand leads to price reductions- just imagine what would happen to marina charges if there was no pressure on berths on the south coast!
Strake
Well-Known Member
<Generally, it would be much better all round if there were far fewer people afloat anyway.>
Yes, let's get rid of all those other nasty people so we can have everything to ourselves..after all, we deserve it, they don't.
Yes, let's get rid of all those other nasty people so we can have everything to ourselves..after all, we deserve it, they don't.
Nautorius
Well-Known Member
ToryBoy,
I have heard it all before on Windermere and you are sadly mistaken. Unfortunately the laws of Economics and Supply and Demand do not work in a boaty world. One example is Windermere where less people have meant huge increases in prices........so believe us when we say it is a bad thing for all.
Paul
I have heard it all before on Windermere and you are sadly mistaken. Unfortunately the laws of Economics and Supply and Demand do not work in a boaty world. One example is Windermere where less people have meant huge increases in prices........so believe us when we say it is a bad thing for all.
Paul
No1_Moose
Well-Known Member
I've tried to explain this reverse supply/demand boaty thing on here before but I just got laughed away.
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
The Windermere thing does not work, no competition see, all the moorings owned by LDNPA or whoever.
People who want to boat on the Lake are forced into the charges.
At sea a yacht can be kept pretty much anywhere, moorings, wall, France, pontoon, trailer....
Less boats will mean cheaper places to keep them, simple.
You may not remember this, but the hundreds of big power boats to each yacht is a new thing, in the 80's it was the other way around. Chandlers did fairly well supporting the yachts why do you think this would stop? Do you think that only mobo types use chandlers?
People who want to boat on the Lake are forced into the charges.
At sea a yacht can be kept pretty much anywhere, moorings, wall, France, pontoon, trailer....
Less boats will mean cheaper places to keep them, simple.
You may not remember this, but the hundreds of big power boats to each yacht is a new thing, in the 80's it was the other way around. Chandlers did fairly well supporting the yachts why do you think this would stop? Do you think that only mobo types use chandlers?
G
Guest
Guest
I think for coastal boating - of course price increase on fuel of this sort of level - if it goes through will curb a lot of MOBO's use. But I think the old ideas of LPG powered engines etc. will be revived - in fact I think it already has been.
As to boating costs with any reduction of MOBO's around ... I don't think at the end of the day it will happen - I reckon that once a boater - always a boater ... so they'll change to alternative boating that doesn't dent the fuel pocket so hard ... so where will be lack of demand on berths / space ?
I think we are over the top in boats now ... so a few % less boats will not make such adifference as some would think.
IMHO.
As to boating costs with any reduction of MOBO's around ... I don't think at the end of the day it will happen - I reckon that once a boater - always a boater ... so they'll change to alternative boating that doesn't dent the fuel pocket so hard ... so where will be lack of demand on berths / space ?
I think we are over the top in boats now ... so a few % less boats will not make such adifference as some would think.
IMHO.
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but might have the advantage of driving asome of the big power boats off the sea, a good thing IMHO.
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I think you are right about fewer gin palaces scooting up and down the coast at full power but this means they will spend more time sitting in harbour shaving their heads and parading their flash women.
but might have the advantage of driving asome of the big power boats off the sea, a good thing IMHO.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are right about fewer gin palaces scooting up and down the coast at full power but this means they will spend more time sitting in harbour shaving their heads and parading their flash women.
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Predictably you are all forgetting the hundreds of thousands of people who boat inland, often on a shoestring as they cannot afford a big shiny gin palace or similar. This potential fuel price increase will nail them to the wall. You, with the 28HP auxilliary, you may only run your motor for an hour or so each day. Now consider the cost increase if you were to run it for seven hours per day six days per week.
Hurts doesn't it. And no, for these people, sailing is not an option, indeed for many of them the boat is their home. There is a noteable "sod you Jack, I'm inboard" attitude from some here.
No taxation without representation. We are not represented on or by the European Commission.
Hurts doesn't it. And no, for these people, sailing is not an option, indeed for many of them the boat is their home. There is a noteable "sod you Jack, I'm inboard" attitude from some here.
No taxation without representation. We are not represented on or by the European Commission.
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Predictably you are all forgetting the hundreds of thousands of people who boat inland, often on a shoestring
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I thought inland speed restrictions meant that fuel costs were not a big issue.
Got chatting to a Mobo'er in Poole recently who was relocating his Thames cruiser to a west country harbour. During a lumpy delivery passage his petrol driven 30' boat was consuming 11 gallons per hour, the manifest inefficiency of his set-up had not been an issue when pootling up and down the calm river.
Predictably you are all forgetting the hundreds of thousands of people who boat inland, often on a shoestring
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought inland speed restrictions meant that fuel costs were not a big issue.
Got chatting to a Mobo'er in Poole recently who was relocating his Thames cruiser to a west country harbour. During a lumpy delivery passage his petrol driven 30' boat was consuming 11 gallons per hour, the manifest inefficiency of his set-up had not been an issue when pootling up and down the calm river.
jprstoney
Well-Known Member
My observance from within the industry is that some users may move from higher powered MOBOs to displacement craft with a fraction of the fuel bill. Things always seem to even out within the market.
There was a post a while back asking whether, because we were going to start paying more tax, did we get the same services as road users? It's always a good conversation starter.....
There was a post a while back asking whether, because we were going to start paying more tax, did we get the same services as road users? It's always a good conversation starter.....
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
>>>
I thought inland speed restrictions meant that fuel costs were not a big issue.
>>>
You might have thought so but no, to many inland boaters its a big cost. Ditto the hireboat industry and anyone pottering inland where engine use is higher than at sea for many people. The engine may not use much more than a couple of litres per hour and might go from a £1 per hour to run to £2.25 per hour. Now multiply that £1.25 by seven per day and six days per week and that's an extra fifty sheets per week. Fine for rich types, less so for people who don't have that sort of money. Tax hike hitting the poor again...
And no, perhaps "use your motor boat less" is about as helpful as "sail less".
The fellow moving his 30' petrol boat out of the inland system has obviously got plenty of cash to throw at the hobby. I know of more people who have gone the other way to reduce fuel costs and have found that the additional engine hours needed to get anywhere meant that the reduction was less than expected. I'd love to cruise up and down the Estuary, East Coast and what have you, putting a few quid across the bar in many pleasant pubs and so forth, but the need to hold down a job and get kids home for school make the relative punctuality of power a neccessity. Not fast gas guzzling power, 14 knots is usually tops.
There do seem to be some types here who would prefer all motor craft to vanish, a pity they cannot have some generosity of spirit and recognise that boaters come in all shapes, sizes and choices of means of propulsion.
I thought inland speed restrictions meant that fuel costs were not a big issue.
>>>
You might have thought so but no, to many inland boaters its a big cost. Ditto the hireboat industry and anyone pottering inland where engine use is higher than at sea for many people. The engine may not use much more than a couple of litres per hour and might go from a £1 per hour to run to £2.25 per hour. Now multiply that £1.25 by seven per day and six days per week and that's an extra fifty sheets per week. Fine for rich types, less so for people who don't have that sort of money. Tax hike hitting the poor again...
And no, perhaps "use your motor boat less" is about as helpful as "sail less".
The fellow moving his 30' petrol boat out of the inland system has obviously got plenty of cash to throw at the hobby. I know of more people who have gone the other way to reduce fuel costs and have found that the additional engine hours needed to get anywhere meant that the reduction was less than expected. I'd love to cruise up and down the Estuary, East Coast and what have you, putting a few quid across the bar in many pleasant pubs and so forth, but the need to hold down a job and get kids home for school make the relative punctuality of power a neccessity. Not fast gas guzzling power, 14 knots is usually tops.
There do seem to be some types here who would prefer all motor craft to vanish, a pity they cannot have some generosity of spirit and recognise that boaters come in all shapes, sizes and choices of means of propulsion.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
>>>
I thought inland speed restrictions meant that fuel costs were not a big issue.
>>>
You might have thought so but no, to many inland boaters its a big cost. Ditto the hire-boat industry and anyone pottering inland where engine use is higher than at sea for many people. The engine may not use much more than a couple of litres per hour and might go from a £1 per hour to run to £2.25 per hour. Now multiply that £1.25 by seven per day and six days per week and that's an extra fifty sheets per week. Fine for rich types, less so for people who don't have that sort of money. Tax hike hitting the poor again...
[/ QUOTE ]
OH COME ON. Anyone who does 7 hours a day for six days is on holiday and £50 over a weeks holiday is nothing.
The simple truth about this matter is that it would be unjust. Why tax fuel for using the sea, taxing cars is justified because our network of roads need to be maintained, but the seas cost nothing. If the government is short of cash then it should tax the nation not a select few based on their hobby. You might was well tax TV's, the bigger the screen the more tax you pay, how about a £1/year/sq inch, or lightbulbs, the more lightbulbs in your house the more tax you pay or horses and dogs, crumbs there are no end of ideas coming...
Tax should be just and not arbitrary.
Any dream of empty marinas, is just that, people are not going to scuttle their boats, they will just use them on fewer occasions.
>>>
I thought inland speed restrictions meant that fuel costs were not a big issue.
>>>
You might have thought so but no, to many inland boaters its a big cost. Ditto the hire-boat industry and anyone pottering inland where engine use is higher than at sea for many people. The engine may not use much more than a couple of litres per hour and might go from a £1 per hour to run to £2.25 per hour. Now multiply that £1.25 by seven per day and six days per week and that's an extra fifty sheets per week. Fine for rich types, less so for people who don't have that sort of money. Tax hike hitting the poor again...
[/ QUOTE ]
OH COME ON. Anyone who does 7 hours a day for six days is on holiday and £50 over a weeks holiday is nothing.
The simple truth about this matter is that it would be unjust. Why tax fuel for using the sea, taxing cars is justified because our network of roads need to be maintained, but the seas cost nothing. If the government is short of cash then it should tax the nation not a select few based on their hobby. You might was well tax TV's, the bigger the screen the more tax you pay, how about a £1/year/sq inch, or lightbulbs, the more lightbulbs in your house the more tax you pay or horses and dogs, crumbs there are no end of ideas coming...
Tax should be just and not arbitrary.
Any dream of empty marinas, is just that, people are not going to scuttle their boats, they will just use them on fewer occasions.
fireball
Well-Known Member
and I believed the tax hikes on fuel was there to discourage us from using our vehicles ...
gjeffery
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, since road fuel duty is a contribution to general taxation, and no longer specifically to the "Road Fund", this could be an argument to increase duty on marine fuel.
G
Guest
Guest
In centuries gone by ....
They had taxed salt .... everyone needed it - so bang on tax.
Another wise court advisor put forward and got approval for Window Tax !! Yep - the number of windows your house had !!
So watch out - you never know what's coming next !!
They had taxed salt .... everyone needed it - so bang on tax.
Another wise court advisor put forward and got approval for Window Tax !! Yep - the number of windows your house had !!
So watch out - you never know what's coming next !!
Birdseye
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I have a 28hp auxillary engine and would not be too bothered if the red diesel concession were abolished, it would add a few percent to my overall costs, but might have the advantage of driving asome of the big power boats off the sea, a good thing IMHO. Generally, it would be much better all round if there were far fewer people afloat anyway. And it's bad ecconomics to say it would make things more expensive- lower demand leads to price reductions- just imagine what would happen to marina charges if there was no pressure on berths on the south coast!
[/ QUOTE ]
" I'm all right Jack!"
And its bad economics to believe that lower demand reduces prices. That will only happen when supply is already less than demand, and reducing demand brings them back into balance - as with marina berths. And a fuel price increase wont make the big power boats go away - they will simply be waterside cottages almost never leaving their marina berths.
So if you want to drive power boats away, best thing you can do is to increase the tax on marina berths.
Good effort at a bit of fishing though /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I have a 28hp auxillary engine and would not be too bothered if the red diesel concession were abolished, it would add a few percent to my overall costs, but might have the advantage of driving asome of the big power boats off the sea, a good thing IMHO. Generally, it would be much better all round if there were far fewer people afloat anyway. And it's bad ecconomics to say it would make things more expensive- lower demand leads to price reductions- just imagine what would happen to marina charges if there was no pressure on berths on the south coast!
[/ QUOTE ]
" I'm all right Jack!"
And its bad economics to believe that lower demand reduces prices. That will only happen when supply is already less than demand, and reducing demand brings them back into balance - as with marina berths. And a fuel price increase wont make the big power boats go away - they will simply be waterside cottages almost never leaving their marina berths.
So if you want to drive power boats away, best thing you can do is to increase the tax on marina berths.
Good effort at a bit of fishing though /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
