Recovery from water to inflatable.

[LadyInBed]

Re recovery onto pontoon. I managed to fall in from the pontoon - walking backwards rolling out hose, the hose was longer than the pontoon!
Anyway, back to the recovery - there was no ladder around, my daughter was on the pontoon (laughing) but stood no hope of lifting me, so it had to be self-rescue but with assistance. I managed to hook a leg over a horizontal fender on a boat moored stern to and pull myself up on a hanging line on the pontoon, hooked my other leg onto the pontoon. My daughter then helped me roll my body over onto the pontoon.

 

[fisherman]

Is that an AMBER or ORANGE light I see in the rigging below the red?

If so, what is it for, please?

That's a rotating orange, for last ditch before you get run down. it always got attention. Theoretically it's sub on the surface or air cushion vehicle. Not within regs in any way, but most boats have one.
Moored in Porthleven outer harbour. Not as exposed as it looks. In line with the clock tower in this pic
Google Maps

 

[NormanS]

If you want to get any assistance from the person in the water being rescued, they have to face you. The RNLI method works OK for inert bodies, although may cause back injuries.

 

[Refueler]

If they capable, a line tied to 2 fixed points and dipping into the water provides a step for them to climb in

Having been a person who fell in water (Bembridge IoW) in spring time .... forget ever using steps .... after a few minutes my legs and bum were numb .... I have rudder / steps etc. to climb on board at transom .... still took 2 guys to get me onto a step so I could rest before trying next step.

When I did my Merchant Navy Survival course - it was in Plymouth Sound outside the breakwater ... March. We had on typical #10 workgear and a BoT Lifejacket ..... Staff pumped up the ex Ships standard Liferaft and threw into sea. College yacht (Tectona) then drifted a way off before we all told to jump in ...... boy was that hard to swim .... but finally we got to the raft .... and we'd already agreed who would go in first ....
I can say without hesitation - those who tried front ways in - gave up and went in backwards ...
Myself and another lad were last .... staff had forgotten to give is the pump to inflate the floor .... ours screaming at them was as they said after "Normal and they just took it as usual".
Finally after a time - the raft was brought alongside and myself + the other lad were suffering Hypothermia .... but even the lads in 'good condition' could not climb unaided back on board Tectona.
It is an experience I will never forget .....

It was next year or one after that Courses in 'real seas' were suspended and moved to swimming pools.

 

[Refueler]

If you want to get any assistance from the person in the water being rescued, they have to face you. The RNLI method works OK for inert bodies, although may cause back injuries.

Most cases of people in water are in shock, legs going numb, panicking .....

The RNLI method is not only for inert 'bodies' ......

Second - any rescue service will tell - better save life than worry about an injury. Of course you do all you can to avoid injury ...

 

[dunedin]

Most cases of people in water are in shock, legs going numb, panicking .....

The RNLI method is not only for inert 'bodies' ......

Second - any rescue service will tell - better save life than worry about an injury. Of course you do all you can to avoid injury ...

But that is the unanswered question - as pulling in face outwards does cause some injuries, why don't RNLI pull in face inwards to "do all you can to avoid injury"? Perhaps there is some reason related to secondary drowning, but until answered we are none the wiser.

 

[Biggles Wader]

I would think the RNLI method is used because it is effective and poses the least risk of injury to the rescuers. Heaving a heavy body out of the water is a high risk lift by any standards and would be unlawful in anything but a life threatening emergency.

 

[dunedin]

I would think the RNLI method is used because it is effective and poses the least risk of injury to the rescuers. Heaving a heavy body out of the water is a high risk lift by any standards and would be unlawful in anything but a life threatening emergency.

But a face out lift is probably more strain on the lifters

 

[Biggles Wader]

But a face out lift is probably more strain on the lifters

I suspect the RNLI has done a great deal of research on this and found the opposite. They have a very strict legal duty of care to their employees and volunteers which means they could be sued if they failed to do so.

 

[Gsailor]

I suspect the RNLI has done a great deal of research on this and found the opposite. They have a very strict legal duty of care to their employees and volunteers which means they could be sued if they failed to do so.

I imagine they have a duty of care to victims too?
Especially as a charity?

WHAT IS THE DANGER OF BRINGING VICTIMS IN ON THEIR BACK? Damage to back?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I have being doing “offshore survival” course since the 1990’s for oil and gas work. Rescue into the lift raft from sea has always been taught. The reason is due to a fully inflated lifejacket and dunking down to get buoyant force for lifting.
Now, life raft design has changed and they all have ramps. Now face down, belly down, hauling casualty up the ramp is the method taught, conscious, not.

I too wonder if the back down method is harking back to non ramp days and bulky lifejackets. My 150N lifejacket, with crotch straps is now a lot less bulky than the older styles and is quite a secure fit.

I think surfer rescue ramps on the back of jet skis, are face down as well for a conscious casualty.

 

[Bilgediver]

Yes - agree with Dunedin ....

My wife fell in while stepping to pontoon with headline. Took two of use while she was screaming - to get her out. My wife is a lightweight.

She was not amused that I told her to just hang onto pontoon while I secured the boat !! She did not think about 4 ton of boat that was a risk to her .....

Some years ago the wife of a neighbour fell in while mooring their boat after arrival. I was moored nearby and heard the shouts etc. She was a large lady and recovery was not helped by her having dislocated a shoulder on a mooring line as she fell.

I arrived at the scene to see her hubby and brother in law wondering how to get her out. O knelt down on the pontoon and asked what she was wearing and of course got a cheeky reply but she confirmed she had jeans secured with a belt. I warned her about what was going to happen and to hold her breath after turning her in the water so her back was towards me. I then slipped my hand down the small of her back and inside her jeans and grabbed a handful of jeans and belt With her holding breath I started to plunger up and down getting a bigger amplitude on each plunge. It only took three plunges and up she popped onto the pontoon beside me. I was quite surprised how easy it was and almost with out effort by me. The only casualty was the silver buckle on the belt however I was let of from paying the repair.

This si a relatively easy way to recover someone with very little effort.

 

[Refueler]

Some years ago the wife of a neighbour fell in while mooring their boat after arrival. I was moored nearby and heard the shouts etc. She was a large lady and recovery was not helped by her having dislocated a shoulder on a mooring line as she fell.

I arrived at the scene to see her hubby and brother in law wondering how to get her out. O knelt down on the pontoon and asked what she was wearing and of course got a cheeky reply but she confirmed she had jeans secured with a belt. I warned her about what was going to happen and to hold her breath after turning her in the water so her back was towards me. I then slipped my hand down the small of her back and inside her jeans and grabbed a handful of jeans and belt With her holding breath I started to plunger up and down getting a bigger amplitude on each plunge. It only took three plunges and up she popped onto the pontoon beside me. I was quite surprised how easy it was and almost with out effort by me. The only casualty was the silver buckle on the belt however I was let of from paying the repair.

This si a relatively easy way to recover someone with very little effort.

Thank you BD ..... excellent.

 

[Refueler]

But that is the unanswered question - as pulling in face outwards does cause some injuries, why don't RNLI pull in face inwards to "do all you can to avoid injury"? Perhaps there is some reason related to secondary drowning, but until answered we are none the wiser.

It has already been answered ... not only by myself but also others ...

Of course if 'body' is fully capable of climbing / getting out of water with minimal assistance - then go whichever way you want.

But if 'body' is as typically panicking / going numb / - then the backwards in is the better way as then you don't have Lifejackets and other gear getting caught up etc.
For those not having had Survival Course - imagine what state they are in when they go in ... imagine them flailing around ... I personally do not want to get a smack in the face or whatever ..... turn them round and you stand much better chance.

Do people honestly think that RNLI don't know what they are doing ?? That Survival Courses teach wrong ??

 

[Refueler]

Anyone tried to use the 'steps' provided on Life Rafts ???? Useless.

Look good on paper ...... but 1. Not deep enough .... 2. They don't hang straight and ready for feet.

Anyone been in the water a bit too long and tried to get back on board via a sugar scoop or the silly little 3 - 4 rung ladders fitted ?? Wish you luck. The recc'd length of ladder is 7+ rungs for a person still able to put feet on a rung .... as to climbing up - that's a different matter.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Every two years I use life raft ramps and they work very well to haul yourself in and be hauled in. A thousand times better than the pre ramps days.

 

[fisherman]

Some years ago the wife of a neighbour fell in while mooring their boat after arrival. I was moored nearby and heard the shouts etc. She was a large lady and recovery was not helped by her having dislocated a shoulder on a mooring line as she fell.

I arrived at the scene to see her hubby and brother in law wondering how to get her out. O knelt down on the pontoon and asked what she was wearing and of course got a cheeky reply but she confirmed she had jeans secured with a belt. I warned her about what was going to happen and to hold her breath after turning her in the water so her back was towards me. I then slipped my hand down the small of her back and inside her jeans and grabbed a handful of jeans and belt With her holding breath I started to plunger up and down getting a bigger amplitude on each plunge. It only took three plunges and up she popped onto the pontoon beside me. I was quite surprised how easy it was and almost with out effort by me. The only casualty was the silver buckle on the belt however I was let of from paying the repair.

This si a relatively easy way to recover someone with very little effort.

She was wearing a lifejacket? Someone in soaked clothing normally doesn't pop up at all. Did she bend away from you so her torso was still in the water and you only had to get her backside onto the pontoon?

 

[Tamar]

All F/Vs have to have recovery ladders rigged ready. Only a flexible one, rolled up to the rail. I had more room so had an aluminium ladder secured one end with a tripline overboard attached to the other. MCA very happy with that. Had to be able to get it from overboard being single handed. Should be mandatory in marinas by the look of it.

On my commercial passenger boat I had to rig a block and tackle man overboard system from the side of the wheelhouse. MCA wouldn't even consider a ladder system.
Thats a handsome looking boat

 

[dunedin]

It has already been answered ... not only by myself but also others ...

Of course if 'body' is fully capable of climbing / getting out of water with minimal assistance - then go whichever way you want.

But if 'body' is as typically panicking / going numb / - then the backwards in is the better way as then you don't have Lifejackets and other gear getting caught up etc.
For those not having had Survival Course - imagine what state they are in when they go in ... imagine them flailing around ... I personally do not want to get a smack in the face or whatever ..... turn them round and you stand much better chance.

Do people honestly think that RNLI don't know what they are doing ?? That Survival Courses teach wrong ??

How many RNLI casualties have large inflated life jackets at the front? Possibly a minority.

As an RNLI Governor member for many decades, and who knows many RNLI crews, I am an avid supporter of dedicated RNLI crews and believe the RNLI do many things very well …… but from the mouths of the crews, Poole sometimes has fixed ideas about things that are not necessarily the best idea in all/many circumstances.
And I certainly don’t think the RNLI’s approach of towing yachts at 7-8 knots, well above hull speed, is a safe way to do things. Witnessed many times (with speed from AIS over an extended period).

 

[fisherman]

Every two years I use life raft ramps and they work very well to haul yourself in and be hauled in. A thousand times better than the pre ramps days.

I found it easy enough, using the tape across the bottom of the raft to upright it, then keeping the tape in hand hauling the raft off my face and, basically, carrying on hauling the tape which was through the door and across the inside of the raft, pulling the raft underneath me. I was younger, in a L/J, and of course in a pool your hands still work. Any sort of ladder across the inside of the raft would be easier if you can only use your hands as claws when cold.