fisherman
Well-Known Member
That's what I thought on the day it was launched in 1976. Took me til 1992 before I bought it, kept until 2018.
Recovery from water to inflatable.
- Thread starter Graham_Wright
- Start date
fisherman
Well-Known Member
When we picked up the near drowned man I was on the point of throwing no 1 son over because it was getting tight. Then I'd have had two to recover, but at least I would have had time to rig a sling on the winch and davit. Probably just a long bowline, plenty of rope lying about.
(Edit: son in L/J, we both were all the time)
Last edited:
dunedin
Well-Known Member
On the 70 foot sail training vessel I was on, the MOB recovery routine included one of two nominated crew heading below, donning a dry suit and harness and being lowered into the water if necessary to grab the casualty and connect them to the lift.
Very different from a second person just jumping in (due to dry suit, harness and connection to halyard), and clearly a boat regularly sailing with young trainees and with plenty of extra trained crew and spare halyards, but very effective.
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
I am a huge fan of Duncan Well’s LifeSavers and 8:1 block and tackle system, with horizontal lifting strop. It just works and makes lifting an incapable casualty back onto the boat. The LifeSaver strop tied to the lifejackets is of course key. However his block and tackle system makes single handed recovery by crew on deck, possible, without being near a winch.
MOB Tackle & Sling Retrieval Kit from Duncan Wells | Suffolk Marine Safety
MOB Tackle & Sling Retrieval Kit from Duncan Wells | Suffolk Marine Safety
KevinV
Well-Known Member
Not having any knowledge of the subject it seems to me that facing towards the crew the casualty may hit their face on the side of the boat, hit or grab at the crew, grab onto the wrong thing and get their arms tangled as you lift them in, and smash their face as they arrive face down in the boat.
Bringing them in backwards means the crew have full control over what's happening - if it's going wrong they can simply let go and try again.
Bringing them in backwards means the crew have full control over what's happening - if it's going wrong they can simply let go and try again.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
I don't know if the RNLI has a Standard Operating Procedure, I will ask a crew member. One thing that does come to mind it is easier to give 'mouth to mouth' and CPR as you bring a casualty onboard face up.
Is the Holger Nielsen of artificial respirations currently in/out of mode in the first aid world?
Is the Holger Nielsen of artificial respirations currently in/out of mode in the first aid world?
fisherman
Well-Known Member
I wrote to them suggesting a stretcher and rail system. Rails across the boat, stretcher slides off the end into the water, casualty, pulled onto stretcher and secured, whole thing slides up and aboard. Casualty is then not in the water in the bottom of the boat and accessible for 1st aid administration. Better supported and secured in case of injury also. No reply.
Gsailor
...
Shame.
ylop
Well-Known Member
I don’t think so - in my experience of dinghy and swimming event safety it seemed to be easy to bring people in facing outwards. In fact it would be my preferred approach even if alone: there is no temptation for the casualty to grab stuff (like the radio, throttle, compass, etc that might get damaged if they haul themselves in on it). But it generally seems easier to me legs seem to naturally drift under the boat if they face you and so you almost have to make the casualty do a summersault to get them on board (possibly kind of throwing their head at hard stuff), whereas facing out you bounced them (even swimmers with no LJ still benefit from natural bouyancy) and then sit them facing out on the tube. Even without a LJ there seems to be a lot of friction on the tube when you come in forwards.
I must have hauled 50 people out the water this way and none have ever complained of pain at the time. I must be missing something about the risk to their back from this? It may not be the best way if they are hypothermic - but literally this is the first time I’ve seen someone suggest this is not a good approach for recovery of a other casualties to a RIB. Add in fighters, biters, spitters and it would definitely be my approach for anyone who might not want rescued.
ylop
Well-Known Member
don’t think it’s been promoted at all this century!
Gsailor
...
I am confused by the terms feet first, face first, reversed etc.
@ Fisherman, you seem to know what is what...
What are the dangers that the RNLI did not listen to? Is it pulling people in on their back head first?
@ Fisherman, you seem to know what is what...
What are the dangers that the RNLI did not listen to? Is it pulling people in on their back head first?
Biggles Wader
Well-Known Member
Now now girls. Please keep this sort of silliness for the football pitch where it belongs 
Players removed from the pitch.Now now girls. Please keep this sort of silliness for the football pitch where it belongs
Play on.
[Content detracting from the primary topic removed.]
Juan Twothree
Well-Known Member
Don't know about big lifeboats, but in ILBs the SOP is to turn them to face outwards, then two crew bring the casualty in over the sponson, by grabbing them under the armpits.
We do this roughly in line with the crew seat, so that if the casualty needs CPR then it's straight onto the seat, which is firm enough to provide a solid base for chest compressions.
Additionally, by positioning them with their head tilting back slightly just over the edge of the seat, it maintains their airway in an open position.
Juan Twothree
Well-Known Member
Lifeboat crews do sometimes moan about SOPs telling them how to do things, but frequently those SOPs have resulted from a hazard observation or an accident, which the crews may not even be aware of yet.
Poole don't just issue SOPs to annoy their crews, they do so to avoid accidents, injury, and damage to equipment. And those who write them know what they're doing.
One of the SOPs relates to towing of casualty vessels, and specifically mentions speed. There is no towing speed specified, other than never above the casualty vessel's designed hull speed. So I don't understand your reference to the "RNLI'S approach of towing yachts at 7-8 knots".
If someone is doing that, then it's not in accordance with policy, and needs addressing.
Graham_Wright
Well-Known Member
Very interesting responses.
Unfortunately they do not address the two man crew or worse the man/woman crew (especially when the woman is the one left on board).
I know my wife would have absolutely no chance of hauling me onto an inflatable if I were unable to help. I have had experience of hauling her onto an inflable after diving. Kit ditched before recovery, no lifejacket (buoyancy in the wet suit) and her finning to help.
But without fins it was always the one arm and leg over routine. Once an arm is over the sponson, the legs tend to float upwards due to the asymmetry. Lifting that one leg is relatively simple and a slither and roll over the sponson generally straightforward. I do not believe I could haul her aboard on her back especially clothed (which, sometimes, is not the case!).
With two recoverers, one each side works well especially with the "dunk".
Falling off a pontoon is altogether a different issue. Nobody who has not tried (and probably failed) is not qualified to answer.
A recent death from such an event (in the absence of anyone in hearing range) has caused me to devote considerable thought to the problem.
Wife has also suffered an involuntary entry, The easy way to recover her was to tow her with the dinghy (which she was supposed to be boarding) to the nearest set of steps. She happened to be wearing a life jacket which inflated (and substantially reduced her ability to swim).
Our pontoon is long and pretty slippery. In rain or worse (as recently) in ice, a passage along it alone would be the height of stupidity.
I intend to attempt a self rescue once the water temperature improves but I do not believe I could haul my body back onto the pontoon. There are steps but not between each boat. My own boat, if moored bows to, would allow me to deploy the stern ladder which has three rungs beneath the water. In cold water, I am not sure that heavily clothed and suffering from the shock of immersion, even that would be a life saver.
I am more and more driven to the conclusion that recovery to a boat as opposed to an inflatable is going to be using a masthead halyard with a simple sling. Rigging a multi part tackle would take too long especially if it has to be rigged to a boom which is carrying sail.
But this is a separate problem (which I note has just been addressed).
Unfortunately they do not address the two man crew or worse the man/woman crew (especially when the woman is the one left on board).
I know my wife would have absolutely no chance of hauling me onto an inflatable if I were unable to help. I have had experience of hauling her onto an inflable after diving. Kit ditched before recovery, no lifejacket (buoyancy in the wet suit) and her finning to help.
But without fins it was always the one arm and leg over routine. Once an arm is over the sponson, the legs tend to float upwards due to the asymmetry. Lifting that one leg is relatively simple and a slither and roll over the sponson generally straightforward. I do not believe I could haul her aboard on her back especially clothed (which, sometimes, is not the case!).
With two recoverers, one each side works well especially with the "dunk".
Falling off a pontoon is altogether a different issue. Nobody who has not tried (and probably failed) is not qualified to answer.
A recent death from such an event (in the absence of anyone in hearing range) has caused me to devote considerable thought to the problem.
Wife has also suffered an involuntary entry, The easy way to recover her was to tow her with the dinghy (which she was supposed to be boarding) to the nearest set of steps. She happened to be wearing a life jacket which inflated (and substantially reduced her ability to swim).
Our pontoon is long and pretty slippery. In rain or worse (as recently) in ice, a passage along it alone would be the height of stupidity.
I intend to attempt a self rescue once the water temperature improves but I do not believe I could haul my body back onto the pontoon. There are steps but not between each boat. My own boat, if moored bows to, would allow me to deploy the stern ladder which has three rungs beneath the water. In cold water, I am not sure that heavily clothed and suffering from the shock of immersion, even that would be a life saver.
I am more and more driven to the conclusion that recovery to a boat as opposed to an inflatable is going to be using a masthead halyard with a simple sling. Rigging a multi part tackle would take too long especially if it has to be rigged to a boom which is carrying sail.
But this is a separate problem (which I note has just been addressed).
jdc
Well-Known Member
+1. I had occasion to help when I spotted a man in the water alongside a yacht on its mooring and another man holding a rope which the casualty had grabbed. Luckily I had my dinghy under tow, so shouting to my companion to just stooge around, I rowed over.
The man in the water was much heavier than me, and his elderly father, who was the chap remaining on-board, was very slightly built and they had reached stale mate, were getting tired and it was nearly dark. None of us was wearing an LJ.
No way could I pull the casualty aboard as a dead weight, but I got an arm aboard, and then a leg and by degrees dragged him on to the inflatable facing me. Far from the casualty trying to pull me in, I had the devil of a job to get hime to grab me at all - too shy perhaps? I kept telling him to do so the provide extra lift, saying that I wouldn't come apart at the seams! Hence if the casualty is at least semi-conscious, and there is only one rescuer, face towards the dinghy is the only practical way in my opinion. But if you're strong, and there are several of you, it might be neater to pull the casualty aboard facing away from you; which I guess generally is the case in an ILB.
TSB240
Well-Known Member
I used to tow my dinghy backwards with the stern tubes pulled up into the gap between the pushpit rails and the aft deck. It never flipped over even in bad overfalls.
I never tried it but I thought it could also be used as a ramp for MOB retrieval similar to the surf rescue devices used by RNLI.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Well done for the rescue. But a polite suggestion, before leaping to the rescue pause and consider your own safety. It would have been sensible to don your own Lifejacket before going to assist. I know from my own experience that it can be difficult to balance at the side of a dinghy when lifting a casualty on board. Without a Lifejacket you could add to the sad list of have a go heroes who lose their own lives.
PS. When I did the rescue from a dinghy in the marina I didn’t have a lifejacket to hand - as was simply walking along the pontoon. But as the casualty was being held with head above water, I specifically did stop and phone for marina staff assistance before getting involved. Which was very worthwhile as they arrived and were able to help once I had casualty out of water. And if I had ended up in the drink also, there was the cavalry already on their way.
Last edited:
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Oddly, usually after attempting to rescue a dog.