Recommendations for Oilies please

[webcraft]

Goretex is not fragile when it is a middle layer in a sailing jacket

Real Goretex is a semi-permeable membrane incorporated as a layer in the fabric. The membrane is very easily damaged by puncturing or by chafing and it's unrepairable. Professional Goretex wearers - mountain guides and the like - expect to get about three months out of it.

It is true that a goretex membrane on its own is fragile, but when it is embedded as a middle layer in a Musto or Henri Lloyd offshore or ocean jacket it is pretty safe. My Henri Lloyd ocean jacket is like body armour, I reckon it would protect me from all but the most determined stabber.

You seem to suffer from some sort of inverted snobbery about Goretex and expensive oilies, but I can assure you that if you did any serious sailing you would see the point. If you are going out for more than a coastal day sail in Summer then good oilies are a fantastic investment, particularly for your partner if you don't want to put her off sailing.

- W

 

[sailorman]

It is true that a goretex membrane on its own is fragile, but when it is embedded as a middle layer in a Musto or Henri Lloyd offshore or ocean jacket it is pretty safe. My Henri Lloyd ocean jacket is like body armour, I reckon it would protect me from all but the most determined stabber.

You seem to suffer from some sort of inverted snobbery about Goretex and expensive oilies, but I can assure you that if you did any serious sailing you would see the point. If you are going out for more than a coastal day sail in Summer then good oilies are a fantastic investment, particularly for your partner if you don't want to put her off sailing.

- W

 

[Robin]

It is true that a goretex membrane on its own is fragile, but when it is embedded as a middle layer in a Musto or Henri Lloyd offshore or ocean jacket it is pretty safe. My Henri Lloyd ocean jacket is like body armour, I reckon it would protect me from all but the most determined stabber.

Geez Webby, you really have upset the anti MMGW camp badly if you need to wear a stab jacket to go out sailing.

 

[Ubergeekian]

It is true that a goretex membrane on its own is fragile, but when it is embedded as a middle layer in a Musto or Henri Lloyd offshore or ocean jacket it is pretty safe. My Henri Lloyd ocean jacket is like body armour, I reckon it would protect me from all but the most determined stabber.

Sure, but it's the chafing at creases you have to watch out for. It's wonderful stuff when it works

You seem to suffer from some sort of inverted snobbery about Goretex and expensive oilies

Not in the least. I simply want a cost-effect solution which works for me. There may well be people for whom the more expensive stuff is appropriate: those who don't mind replacing them more often or those who don't really go sailing very much but want to look good around the marina.

Fine. No problem.

I, however, will stick to the yellow stuff that cost me - if I recall correctly - forty quid for the jacket and thirty for the trousers in 1989, and which shows no sign of giving up. I'll also continue to recommend that solution and give my reasons for it.

 

[JohnTH]

Well, for my part I go for plane and simple Nylon material. You can keep the expensive Gortex etc.

Advantages that I see with Nylon are: it will dry easily, it can go in the washing machine when you have diesel all over from re fueling, is easy to repair with sail repair tape. They are economical to buy too.

As with most cold and wet things in life layers are the way to go. Cotton next to the skin etc etc.

The down side of Nylon is that it burns very well so, stay away from RPGs and you should be fine.

73s de
Johnth

 

[jellyellie]

As with most cold and wet things in life layers are the way to go.

Yes!

Cotton next to the skin etc etc.

No!!! Cotton is pretty much the worst thing you could put next to your skin as a base-layer. It's fine when it's dry, and when you actually want to keep cool, but as soon as you start to sweat it absorbs moisture really quickly - especially with your nylon oilies! Cotton can absorb 30+% of its weight in water, then takes forever to dry, and heat is wicked away from your body through this moisture 30 times quicker than it is through air. At this point, you'd be better off without the thing on.

What you want is a base-layer made out of something like polyester, polypropylene or best of all, merino wool. These all transfer the moisture quickly and efficiently through the outer layers - this is where you need a breathable outershell as well.

I always, always feel the cold. I've spent many seasons researching different layering systems, trying out different base-layers, mid-layers etc. I have come to the conclusion, as have many of my sailing friends and professionals, that Icebreaker merino base-layers are the best money can buy. They're not cheap - around £50+ a top - but you can find them in sales, they last forever, and they're just perfect.

Oh, one final thing - polyester & polypropylene stuff stinks after a day of wear. Cotton gets whiffy after a few days, especially when it gets sweaty. You can wear a merino base-layer for a week and it won't smell.

And no, chavs don't wear Icebreakers.

 

[Mudisox]

Oilskins.

Another vote for Guy cottons- had them for 20+ years now, -mind you you can forget the idea of sitting on a rail. Get inside and turn the heating up is more like it, when it starts to get too wet.
For swankiness and demands from SWMBO, I have just got "Rooster" coastal gear. Actually fits me very well, and seems to do the job, despite the dark colours. Surprised no one has mentioned them. Good price too.

 

[geoid96]

...... You can wear a merino base-layer for a week and it won't smell.

I agree 100%. I wear wool top and long johns as a base layer for both sailing and cross country skiing where you really do sweat.

 

[TQA]

After buying 3 set of cheap oilies and getting wet I lashed out and bought a set of H L Ocean Racing oilies in 1990. Still using them today. OK they are well grubby but I still stay dry.

Ohh Yeehhh Red so I guess Non Chav but who cares, the seagulls don't.

 

[Sandyman]

Yes!
I've spent many seasons researching different layering systems, trying out different base-layers, mid-layers etc. I have come to the conclusion, as have many of my sailing friends and professionals, /QUOTE]

Come come my dear you are but 18 ??? so how many years & how many seasons have you really spent researching ??? Not wanting to burst your bubble but at your age ''professionals' as you put it, does not instill me with much enthusiasm. Yes I realise you are trying to make your mark and a name for yourself, but you should also realise you need to learn to crawl before you can walk.

Come & talk with me. I really think we could have valued discussions. I'm fwd of Lady Vista
OK ?????

Sandy

Yacht Fijamor

 

[Woodlouse]

[

Come come my dear you are but 18 ??? so how many years & how many seasons have you really spent researching ??? Not wanting to burst your bubble but at your age ''professionals' as you put it, does not instill me with much enthusiasm. Yes I realise you are trying to make your mark and a name for yourself, but you should also realise you need to learn to crawl before you can walk.

Come & talk with me. I really think we could have valued discussions. I'm fwd of Lady Vista
OK ?????

Sandy

Yacht Fijamor

Fraid to say you don't need to be a wise old man to know what she's said is true. Cotton doesn't have a place in any layer if you want to remain warm and dry. Young she may be but she's talking sense here.

 

[alahol2]

Where/when do all you people sail? I've got some very grotty non-matching oilies on the boat and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've needed to wear them in the last 5 years. I don't do oceans admittedly, just the usual weekends and holidays. It always amazes me the number of crews one sees on a summer day wearing oilies with the sun beating down on them. 95% of the time you need nothing more than a fleece or windproof top. I couldn't now countenance spending several hundred pounds on oilies that I would hardly ever wear.

Am I really getting this old and grumpy

 

[Roberto]

Where can that "merino base layer" be found/bought ?
Might give it a try..

thanks

 

[DJE]

95% of the time you need nothing more than a fleece or windproof top. I couldn't now countenance spending several hundred pounds on oilies that I would hardly ever wear.

This year maybe but have you forgotten the previous two?
Surely it's the 5% of the time that you buy the oilies for, in bad weather getting wet and cold is just plain dangerous.
I must be doing something wrong as I've bought expensive foul weather gear but I never wear it ashore, I didn't realise it was for posing in. And that young chap who wandered into the Folly Inn the other Saturday night in full oilies, lifejacket, hat and gloves (I kid you not) just looked a prat to me. Obviously I've no fashion sense.

 

[JohnTH]

Wow, that got a reaction. Good to hear that most folk agree, layers are the way to go. I too would like to know more about merino wool undies although I still like cotton next to the skin. Could this just be a fetish I wonder?

Not a mention of the Nylon outer though ! I have used most things over a fourty year period and still find Nylon hard to better. It offers value for money is easy to maintain and is very very easy to clean.

73s de
Johnth

 

[flaming]

Yes!
I've spent many seasons researching different layering systems, trying out different base-layers, mid-layers etc. I have come to the conclusion, as have many of my sailing friends and professionals, /QUOTE]

Come come my dear you are but 18 ??? so how many years & how many seasons have you really spent researching ??? Not wanting to burst your bubble but at your age ''professionals' as you put it, does not instill me with much enthusiasm. Yes I realise you are trying to make your mark and a name for yourself, but you should also realise you need to learn to crawl before you can walk.

Come & talk with me. I really think we could have valued discussions. I'm fwd of Lady Vista
OK ?????

Sandy

Yacht Fijamor

Good to see that the ageist dismissal of youth is alive and kicking.

How old do you have to be before your opinion is valid?

I'm 28, been sailing all my life and making my living in this industry for the last 4 years. Does my opinion count perhaps? Or should I sod off and come back when I'm 60?

Cos funnily enough, on this subject at least, I agree 100% with Jellyellie.

 

[alahol2]

Aldi occasionally do merino base layers at a sensible price. Also just google 'merino t' and several makes come up. They are often labelled 'thermal' but I wear them all year for walking and there is no doubt they wick better than anything else.

 

[Robin]

This year maybe but have you forgotten the previous two?
Surely it's the 5% of the time that you buy the oilies for, in bad weather getting wet and cold is just plain dangerous.
I must be doing something wrong as I've bought expensive foul weather gear but I never wear it ashore, I didn't realise it was for posing in. And that young chap who wandered into the Folly Inn the other Saturday night in full oilies, lifejacket, hat and gloves (I kid you not) just looked a prat to me. Obviously I've no fashion sense.

Getting wet and/or cold is a definite no no for us too. However as others have said, a wet weather suit is for umm, wet weather, not for keeping warm. The opposite is also true, the weather can be very hot when you are getting wet!

I suspect there are other important factors affecting choice. Some boats will be wetter than others at sea (smaller ones for sure), some will have sprayhoods others no protection and some will be racing with crews on the rail not ducking behind hoods.

On our boat we can go upwind in a good F5 with the sprayhood down (nearly always is at sea) and still stay dry in the cockpit. At F6 we put the hood up and duck occasionally but still won't have broken out the wet weather gear.

If it gets cold, the layers go on and we have lots of options without putting on the wet weather stuff.

When it gets really wet about however then we want 100% waterproof, 100% of the time including if sitting in a permanent puddle. When it stops being wet though, we want to be able to shed that wet weather gear and put it away dry without having to hang it for 3 days to dry out fleece lined pockets or hoods. What are hats and gloves for?

Hence for what we do, on our boat, we prefer the 100% waterproof Guy Cotten PVC stuff, it does everything we want and the fact that it costs far less and lasts forever is a bonus not a reason. We (SWMBO and I) have done lots of miles in lots of boats over lots of years in lots of conditions so are not 'just Solent sailors in summer' but are perfectly willing to concede that others will choose and be happier with the top of the range stuff. No single view is the correct one.

Odd thing is that we both have nylon outer waterproof jackets (also Guy Cotten) that look the part more and we use for going ashore. Not for posing in (they cost just £25 each on sale in Guy Cotten's factory shop), but because unlike with PVC water doesn't run straight off so you have a chance of walking to your destination with dry trousers without needing to don the chest highs and boots as well. That said we also carry windproof golf umbrellas.

 

[Keen_Ed]

Not in the least. I simply want a cost-effect solution which works for me. There may well be people for whom the more expensive stuff is appropriate: those who don't mind replacing them more often or those who don't really go sailing very much but want to look good around the marina.

Which implies that those who do spend money on Gore-tex oilies are either spendthrift or posers. I would say that I'm not either, I'm someone who wanted the most cost effective way of staying comfortable.

And for me, that's HL Offshore Goretex oilies. The thought of sitting on the rail all night in a puddle of sweat in waterproof PVC or nylon doesn't bear thinking about.

 

[Robin]

The thought of sitting on the rail all night in a puddle of sweat in waterproof PVC or nylon doesn't bear thinking about.

Doesn't trip my trigger either, I don't do rail sitting anymore nor does SWMBO. I didn't much like it as a racer either, that's why I helmed and the monkeys sat on the rail.
I'm a sweater too (cable knit) but don't sweat in my PVC stuff any more than I did in the sooper dooper ocean bloomers I had before. But then I don't wear mine to keep warm only to keep dry, the rest of the time it's shorts, tees and Crocs, supplemented by sweaters and windproof thermal tops when forced. Now where DID I put that lifejacket?

Horses for courses, I'm happy you're happy, isn't the sailing world great!