Recommend a rivet tool

[Catalina36]

I've installed 6mm monel up the mast with no great effort using one of these:
BLUESPOT HEAVY DUTY RIVET GUN HAND RIVETER TOOL + 320 RIVETS 4 HEAD NOZZLES 9103 | eBay

At that price it looks interesting but it says 4 nozzles up to 4.8mm, not 6mm.

 

[peter gibbs]

See if you can rent/borrow an air powered one.

if rivets are not feasible, or, if there's doubt over their staying power when installed, consider a bolt with locked nuts. Properly installed, with washers this could even be a superior solution offering adjustable movement if required .

PWG

 

[Clancy Moped]

if rivets are not feasible, or, if there's doubt over their staying power when installed, consider a bolt with locked nuts. Properly installed, with washers this could even be a superior solution offering adjustable movement if required .

PWG

This was for mast steps..noooooo movement required pls

 

[dancrane]

Today I needed to rivet two small clamcleats to my boom. So, I used 4.8mm Force 4 monel rivets and the lazy tongs riveter...

...utter failure. One popped leaving the cleat (and the rivet) loose in the hole. The mandrel of the other one snapped off short.

I feel there's a quality issue here. I have previously managed to set monel rivets with the same tool, and I've several times known the mandrel break off in that way, regardless of the care I've taken. It seems to be wholly hit-and-miss. The mandrel is not reliably strong enough to fully deform the monel section on the inside, before breaking off.

We are inclined to blame our tools, and some of the riveters for sale certainly invite blame, they're lousy. But I think the strength of the rivets themselves - or rather, the mandrel, which must survive the tool's gripping and pulling, is also vital to success.

In this instance I'm going to use ordinary cheap-as-chips aluminium rivets instead. I wish I hadn't assumed I needed a higher grade - it's a low-load cleat for the lazyjack ends, easy to check for corrosion and to replace if they fail.

 

[NormanS]

Today I needed to rivet two small clamcleats to my boom. So, I used 4.8mm Force 4 monel rivets and the lazy tongs riveter...

...utter failure. One popped leaving the cleat (and the rivet) loose in the hole. The mandrel of the other one snapped off short.

I feel there's a quality issue here. I have previously managed to set monel rivets with the same tool, and I've several times known the mandrel break off in that way, regardless of the care I've taken. It seems to be wholly hit-and-miss. The mandrel is not reliably strong enough to fully deform the monel section on the inside, before breaking off.

We are inclined to blame our tools, and some of the riveters for sale certainly invite blame, they're lousy. But I think the strength of the rivets themselves - or rather, the mandrel, which must survive the tool's gripping and pulling, is also vital to success.

In this instance I'm going to use ordinary cheap-as-chips aluminium rivets instead. I wish I hadn't assumed I needed a higher grade - it's a low-load cleat for the lazyjack ends, easy to check for corrosion and to replace if they fail.

From whom did you get your monel rivets? I installed mast steps on both my masts using 6.4mm monel rivets, and had
100% success rate. For what you're proposing to do, alloy rivets should be adequate. Mast steps are a different story.

 

[dancrane]

Thanks Norman. My rivets were from Force 4. I've used them before for more demanding applications with better luck, but I would never say it's a sure thing...only just more often successful than not.

I suppose the mandrel is necessarily made of something inferior to monel, in order to eventually separate cleanly, having deformed the end of the rivet. But if the mandrel is soft enough to be chewed up by the tool's jaws, or broken prematurely under the tensile force exerted by the tool, then the high cost of monel rivets is money wasted.

 

[Iliade]

The troubles I've had are the jaws failing to grip the mandrel, or gripping it so tightly that it is broken off without first being extracted, or snapping it off at the rivet, leaving the stem of the mandrel inside the set rivet, where it inevitably rusts or corrodes.

Monel rivets seem (to me) to be much, much harder than aluminium, and require good luck and lots of effort before they finally pop, like a small firearm.

Monel is a copper nickel alloy. They are a lot harder than aluminium pop rivets. What you are describing is almost certainly caused by poor quality rivets or perhaps twisting the tool in use. No surprise given the forces needed to set them!

I recently bought some 'marine' blister packed Monel rivets because I only wanted a few for a small job. They set fine, but I was horrified when I found the pins were corroding! (They really should have stainless pins) Then I read this thread.

Edit due cross-post: The mandrel has to be stronger than the rivet, hence steel is used. 'Cheap' rivets use galvanised steel, posh ones stainless.

 

[Norman_E]

I have both lazy tong and long handle riveters, and for setting the larger sizes the long handled ones are better. The lazy tongs struggled to set 4.8mm monel, though they did work, but it was much easier with the long handled ones which I bought to set some 4mm stainless rivets used on my kit car. This is the one I have Faithfull Heavy-Duty Long Arm Riveter though I note there is now a different, probably newer version on sale elsewhere Faithfull Heavy-Duty Long Arm Riveter

 

[dancrane]

Thanks for these comments. I'm sorry to conclude that monel rivets from Force 4 may be less good than required, especially at around £1 per rivet. The rust marks I've noticed (in some cases) would seem to show they have mild steel mandrels.

I'm not especially worried about some visual corrosion of the mandrel, although it is odd that most haven't suffered while some do. All were from Force 4.

Reading this thread and the earlier 2015 one, I didn't feel anyone had established absolutely what the mandrel ought to be made from, in order to be strong enough in use, and critically, able to be set every time without the mandrel failing.

Norman, where did your 100% reliable rivets come from?

 

[penberth3]

.....I suppose the mandrel is necessarily made of something inferior to monel, in order to eventually separate cleanly, having deformed the end of the rivet.....

All mandrels I've ever seen are steel, not "inferior" at all. There's a neck out of sight inside the rivet - that's where it should break. Possibly, jaws on a poor toll could make a deep notch in the mandrel and cause it to break within the jaws, as the photo shows.

 

[penberth3]

…..The rust marks I've noticed (in some cases) would seem to show they have mild steel mandrels.

I think they're harder and stronger than mild steel.

 

[dancrane]

Okay, I'm happy to believe that. So we may conclude that correct use of a better tool will virtually guarantee perfect setting every time. It's a shame that this area has fairly few contributors, so there doesn't seem to be any out-and-out preference for tool or for rivets...just a mix of contented reports and largely inexplicable failures.

 

[penberth3]

Okay, I'm happy to believe that. So we may conclude that correct use of a better tool will virtually guarantee perfect setting every time. It's a shame that this area has fairly few contributors, so there doesn't seem to be any out-and-out preference for tool or for rivets...just a mix of contented reports and largely inexplicable failures.

All fair comments. My summary - for small aluminium rivets you can get away with anything. Larger steel or monel, and definitely for 6mm you need the "bolt cutter" type of riveter, or air/electric.

 

[NormanS]

Thanks for these comments. I'm sorry to conclude that monel rivets from Force 4 may be less good than required, especially at around £1 per rivet. The rust marks I've noticed (in some cases) would seem to show they have mild steel mandrels.

I'm not especially worried about some visual corrosion of the mandrel, although it is odd that most haven't suffered while some do. All were from Force 4.

Reading this thread and the earlier 2015 one, I didn't feel anyone had established absolutely what the mandrel ought to be made from, in order to be strong enough in use, and critically, able to be set every time without the mandrel failing.

Norman, where did your 100% reliable rivets come from?

Hi Dan, I got mine from inox ie. They are in Ireland, and were competitive, and very helpful. Bear in mind that the rate of VAT in Ireland is probably 23%.

 

[ChromeDome]

I bought a "Faithfull" double handled one, and it coped with 6.4mm monel rivets. It's a good tool.

+1

KSTOOLS for me.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I agree with NormanS #5 the faithful riveter is a good tool, it has a Three jaw mandril which copes well with the larger Monel rivets.

 

[dancrane]

Is it the 17-inch version or the 22-inch?
I found two on their site, one about £60, the other nearer £80, both called "heavy duty".

 

[Praxinoscope]

Is it the 17-inch version or the 22-inch?
I found two on their site, one about £60, the other nearer £80, both called "heavy duty".

I think its the 17” will go out to the garage and check, the dreaded Amazon sell it at £39, (HDLDR)
Not sure where to measure to/from but arms are 13” total length 17”,

 

[afterpegassus]

Milwaukee battery powered riveters are extensively used at my work - much more user friendly than lazy tongs.
Perhaps you get similar from a hire shop?

 

[Boater Sam]

The mandrel I thought was stainless so that it snapped quite easily.
I think that the size of the hole in relation to the rivet makes a difference, and any bending/levering of the rivet whilst setting messes it up.
From experience you need to pull the rivet in one smooth movement, having to tug and relax and tug some more makes it harder for some reason.