Rebuilding 1929 Fastnet winner Tally Ho

[Motor_Sailor]

Well, at the moment it appears his new keel is glued on with felt and tar. (Just watched the latest video).

But he said they have to get the boat high enough to get the drill underneath to recess the nuts on the bottom. So at some point, they'll drill vertically down from the inside , counterbore the holes underneath the lead, drive a double ended threaded rod down from above, put a washer and nut on that lower end, then dome it to 'locktite' the nut and then tighten the nut on the other (inside) end as per normal.

 

[john_morris_uk]

But he said they have to get the boat high enough to get the drill underneath to recess the nuts on the bottom. So at some point, they'll drill vertically down from the inside , counterbore the holes underneath the lead, drive a double ended threaded rod down from above, put a washer and nut on that lower end, then dome it to 'locktite' the nut and then tighten the nut on the other (inside) end as per normal.

I knew I should have put a smily face on my post…

 

[mjcoon]

I knew I should have put a smily face on my post…

No, don't; it spoils the fun!

 

[Stemar]

It was very well done by a skilled team, but casting and fitting the keel would definitely make it onto the Jobs you Don't Want to do Again thread for me.

 

[mrming]

The deck strakes are now on as many of you have probably already seen. Feels like the project is over the halfway point now for sure. How many boats can we get out when she finally sails back into the Solent? I for one hope to be there!

 

[Seven Spades]

You and the VAT man!

 

[Buck Turgidson]

You and the VAT man!

You don't imagine the Leo is not smart enough to have the yacht owned by a company? I don't think the VAT man will get a sniff.

 

[[2574]]

You don't imagine the Leo is not smart enough to have the yacht owned by a company? I don't think the VAT man will get a sniff.

Why does corporate ownership change VAT implications?

 

[Bajansailor]

As Tally Ho was originally built in the UK, long before the concept of VAT was invented by a sadistic tax man, how would she be regarded now for VAT status?
I know that if a British built and registered boat is sold overseas and then returns to Britain, they will have to pay VAT to ''import' the boat.
But if the boat is 100 years old, does this still apply?
And because Tally Ho is being 're-built' rather than starting off as a new boat being built from scratch, how does this affect things? If there are still a few bits of the original structure on the boat, will she be regarded as an 'old' boat or a 'new' boat?
And if they do decide to charge VAT on her (assuming that Leo wants to 'import' her properly), what would they use as a basis for determining the current value of her when she arrives in Britain?
Could Leo register her in the USA (as she was re-built there), perhaps in Delaware (many non USA folk seem to have boats registered in Delaware) and then she would just be a 'visitor' to Britain?

 

[Seven Spades]

Well the age of the boat is irrelevant because repairs are VAT'able. As a British resident you can not use a VAT free vessel in UK waters, VAT becomes instantly payable. If it is in the name of a VAT registered company he may have to ay VAT and then reclaim it. Usually companies have to make taxable supplies to register for VAT. So I think that he may have a problem.

 

[DFL1010]

Re the new vs old thing, I think it's the keel.

IIRC there was one of the old pax paddle steamers a few years ago (not the Waverley, but that sort of idea) that went in to refit, and the yard replaced the wrong bit which made it a new ship not an old, grandfathered in ship, so needed to meet new safety standards and all that jazz.

Can't remember the outcome, or the details, so if anyone's got further details I'd be interested.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Sampson boat co ltd is registered at companies house with dormant accounts filed.

 

[Vicarage]

Re the new vs old thing, I think it's the keel.

IIRC there was one of the old pax paddle steamers a few years ago (not the Waverley, but that sort of idea) that went in to refit, and the yard replaced the wrong bit which made it a new ship not an old, grandfathered in ship, so needed to meet new safety standards and all that jazz.

Can't remember the outcome, or the details, so if anyone's got further details I'd be interested.

I believe it was the Medway Queen and is one of the various reasons that is still sat in Gillingham feeling sorry for herself, though credit must be given to a really dedicated bunch of volunteers who are still trying to keep the momentum up.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

As Tally Ho was originally built in the UK, long before the concept of VAT was invented by a sadistic tax man, how would she be regarded now for VAT status?
I know that if a British built and registered boat is sold overseas and then returns to Britain, they will have to pay VAT to ''import' the boat.
But if the boat is 100 years old, does this still apply?
And because Tally Ho is being 're-built' rather than starting off as a new boat being built from scratch, how does this affect things? If there are still a few bits of the original structure on the boat, will she be regarded as an 'old' boat or a 'new' boat?
And if they do decide to charge VAT on her (assuming that Leo wants to 'import' her properly), what would they use as a basis for determining the current value of her when she arrives in Britain?
Could Leo register her in the USA (as she was re-built there), perhaps in Delaware (many non USA folk seem to have boats registered in Delaware) and then she would just be a 'visitor' to Britain?

VAT is a continental invention.

French tax authority apparatchik Maurice Lauré fathered the tax in 1954, although a tax that touched on every stage of the production process was first 'theorised' in Germany a century earlier.

VAT took its bow in the UK in November 1974, as part of the price the UK paid for joining the Common Market.

VAT: A brief history of taxation

Old or new?

The ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus' paradox, is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object that has had all of its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object.
The paradox is most notably recorded by Plutarch in Life of Theseus from the late first century.

 

[[2574]]

Sampson boat co ltd is registered at companies house with dormant accounts filed.

That has no impact on VAT liability, why is this relevant?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

That has no impact on VAT liability, why is this relevant?

It would if the asset is transferred to the company before entry to the UK.

 

[Bru]

As Tally Ho was originally built in the UK, long before the concept of VAT was invented by a sadistic tax man, how would she be regarded now for VAT status?

Regardless of personal opinions (and I'm in the "the spirit of Tally Ho lives on" school) she will undoubtedly be regarded as a new build legally

All of the structural components are new - the keel, the knees, the floors, the stem etc and all have been replaced during one rebuild process

The legal precedents on this are well established. Piecemeal replacement of components as part of routine maintenance doesn't affect the provenance however significant replacement of major components results in a replica

The Tally Ho Leo is building will legally be a replica and as such subject to taxation etc as with any new boat. One assumes Leo has planned accordingly as he's no fool

 

[DJE]

The paradox is most notably recorded by Plutarch in Life of Theseus from the late first century.

And by Trigger when musing about his broom.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Thinking a little more about the vat issue, I guess he's been resident in the USA for long enough that he can import it under ToR.

 

[[2574]]

It would if the asset is transferred to the company before entry to the UK.

I just don’t see how simply transferring an asset in to a corporate entity has any impact on the VAT status of the yacht, it is simply owned by a company rather than an individual, the VAT liability is unchanged.