mikemonty
Well-Known Member
I can't justify the precision either but I've got better things to do with my life than worry about how excel presents numbers by default.
Really small heater for 18ft boat
- Thread starter chrisbitz
- Start date
I can't justify the precision either but I've got better things to do with my life than worry about how excel presents numbers by default.
VicS
Well-Known Member
Excel ?? I use a scrap of paper and a pencil!
But not better things than repeating rough calculations that Ive alredy done
BTW you should tell your Excel spreadsheet that it should have use the Gross CV , not the net CV, for a non vented system
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Rigger Mortice
N/A
As you guys are getting into the details of this here's another relevant question...............
Of all the un-vented heating methods discussed (wax, paraffin, gas, diesel) are any of them drier? Or do they all produce the same amount of condensation?
Of all the un-vented heating methods discussed (wax, paraffin, gas, diesel) are any of them drier? Or do they all produce the same amount of condensation?
VicS
Well-Known Member
Probably not a significant difference.
As the molecular weight increases the % of hydrogen in the molecule decreases so on a weight for weight basis the amount of water formed decreases as you go up from methane through lpg to kerosene and other heating oils to wax.
However you really also need to take into account the gross calorific value of of the fuels and calculate on a water produced vs heat produced basis.
A job for someone with nothing better to do in life than play with Excel spreadsheets perhaps.
(note than for a non vented system it is gross CV not net CV that should be used )
Zagato
Well-Known Member
Heres a randon question - can a Tilley lamp run on meths? Not sure wether to get a Tilley or a Pertomax one!
andygc
Well-Known Member
No it can't.
That Petromax link goes to the BriteLyt. If you are tempted to run any Petromax lantern on something other than paraffin, you might like to read this thread http://www.be-back-later.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1445 or this one http://www.be-back-later.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=260 (it's rather long). Look for posts by Neil McRae about the safety of Petromax lanterns and about BriteLyt's claims. Neil is a long-standing collector of pressure lamps, the author of the definitive guide on pressure lamps, and a recognised authority on their restoration and use.
sam_uk
Well-Known Member
This is a question I am also interested in.
I'm considering getting a 2m length of the flexible corrugated chimney liner you can get. Cutting a second washboard to size and putting a hole in it to take the chimney. I could then run a tilley lamp on the floor with the top of the lamp inserted into the chimney and have the CO and water vent outside.
Presumably this would be plenty of ventilation for the tilley? I'm hoping some of the heat could be reclaimed as it radiates from the chimney into the cabin.
Also may be of interest I just spotted these tiny catalytic heaters that run on lighter fuel. One in each sock perhaps! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zippo-40286...r_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1350491387&sr=1-1
I'm considering getting a 2m length of the flexible corrugated chimney liner you can get. Cutting a second washboard to size and putting a hole in it to take the chimney. I could then run a tilley lamp on the floor with the top of the lamp inserted into the chimney and have the CO and water vent outside.
Presumably this would be plenty of ventilation for the tilley? I'm hoping some of the heat could be reclaimed as it radiates from the chimney into the cabin.
Also may be of interest I just spotted these tiny catalytic heaters that run on lighter fuel. One in each sock perhaps! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zippo-40286...r_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1350491387&sr=1-1
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
one for the candles then
Once worked on with a spread sheet and abit of vic brain power it looks to me as though the candles are:
the cheapest
produce more power than we thought
produce less moisture
once I find out about the tin foil heat trap I will be able to sit below wearing nothing more than my budgy smugglers
Dylan
Probably not a significant difference.
As the molecular weight increases the % of hydrogen in the molecule decreases so on a weight for weight basis the amount of water formed decreases as you go up from methane through lpg to kerosene and other heating oils to wax.
However you really also need to take into account the gross calorific value of of the fuels and calculate on a water produced vs heat produced basis.
A job for someone with nothing better to do in life than play with Excel spreadsheets perhaps.
(note than for a non vented system it is gross CV not net CV that should be used )
Once worked on with a spread sheet and abit of vic brain power it looks to me as though the candles are:
the cheapest
produce more power than we thought
produce less moisture
once I find out about the tin foil heat trap I will be able to sit below wearing nothing more than my budgy smugglers
Dylan
Rigger Mortice
N/A
From Vics earlier comments I think you'll find that they only produce less moisture because they produce less heat. The water produced per watt of heat will be much the same. Another heater turned down would produce a similar amount of moisture.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Top link.
Thanks Sam, I have one of these on my letter to Santa and was not sure where to direct his (her) gaze.
Does anyone know if they work ok? Do they make you stink of petrochemicals? Will I have to ventilate my trousers against the damp?
VicS
Well-Known Member
I dont know the exact chemical formula of candle wax ( except that it will be CnH(2n+2) where n will be some number greater than 20
If we take a formula where n=25
C25H52 + 38O2 → 25CO2 + 26H2O
So 12 x 25 + 52 = 352 g of wax will produce 26 x 18 = 468g water
Therefore 20 g of wax will produce 468 x 20/ 352 = 26.6 g water.
Not much ... but you dont get much heat either.
The Biologists will be along shortly to tell us how much water vapour we exhale!
skipper681
Well-Known Member
DownWest
Well-Known Member
It was the great Bolger who promoted the candle light heating method. But, like all hydrocarbons, they produce H2O and other gasses, like carbon monoxide. So any heater should be vented or flued. Otherwise it is Russian Roulette.
Personally I would use a simple wood/charcoal mini type..with a thin flue. The ones from Force Ten fitted the bill, but seemed to have dissapeared off the net.
DW
Personally I would use a simple wood/charcoal mini type..with a thin flue. The ones from Force Ten fitted the bill, but seemed to have dissapeared off the net.
DW
firstascent2002
Well-Known Member
I have a taylors thru deck fitting mounted above the stove. A removable straight drop flu attatched to an inverted stainless steel cooking mixing bowel sits directly over the gas burner. The bottom of the bowel is almost on the stove top.
The bowel heats up and becomes a heater and the hotter it gets the better the flu draws.
If you put a smoke source 2 feet from it, it is instantly drawn in....I have three co alarms an none have ever triggered and I burn it all night happly. 5 seasons now and still alive..
Not kind on the gas bottle though...
The bowel heats up and becomes a heater and the hotter it gets the better the flu draws.
If you put a smoke source 2 feet from it, it is instantly drawn in....I have three co alarms an none have ever triggered and I burn it all night happly. 5 seasons now and still alive..
Not kind on the gas bottle though...
Rigger Mortice
N/A
No carbon monoxide in Vics equation?
In any event half a dozen candles are producing just over a quarter pint of water.
In any event half a dozen candles are producing just over a quarter pint of water.
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sailor who
New Member
I find this heater quite comfortable.
http://www.compass24.de/web/catalog/shop/technik_komfort_heizung/4878831#
A personal review you will find on my blog
http://sailorwho.blogspot.de/
http://www.compass24.de/web/catalog/shop/technik_komfort_heizung/4878831#
A personal review you will find on my blog
http://sailorwho.blogspot.de/
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC
Well-Known Member
This is a very interesting post and I can see the advantages and disadvantages of all heating systems, however, I use thisView attachment 21463
I have posted the picture of this Heater to a few similar threads recently; this catalytic heater is for indoor, is used by lorry drivers a lot, works on gas cartridges, has oxygen depletion valve and an anti tilt valve.
It radiates a lot of heat and is portable; I bought it some 5 years ago (appro £60 ) and I would like to get one more but not many shops stock them.
I like the idea of using candles, I will try them next month as the boat will stay in the water until end of November; I will ask SWMBO to be the judge
I have posted the picture of this Heater to a few similar threads recently; this catalytic heater is for indoor, is used by lorry drivers a lot, works on gas cartridges, has oxygen depletion valve and an anti tilt valve.
It radiates a lot of heat and is portable; I bought it some 5 years ago (appro £60 ) and I would like to get one more but not many shops stock them.
I like the idea of using candles, I will try them next month as the boat will stay in the water until end of November; I will ask SWMBO to be the judge
VicS
Well-Known Member
Hopefully no CO if adequate fresh air is available. Would not have clue of the proportion of CO to CO2 if there is any. The risk rises if the supply of fresh air is restricted.
Makes no difference to the quantity of water produced
I reckon the biggest risk associated with burning plates full of candles is probably the fire risk
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Spannaz
Member
not to clued up on it, but would a paraffin heater be suitable?
VicS
Well-Known Member
Safer IMO than candles on plate from the fire risk point of view.
Pretty much the same problem from water and its condensation if its not flued.
Most are likely to have a more serious heat output.
CO a problem fresh air is restricted and the heater not flued
