Reaching struts

[zoidberg]

Would I be right in thinking the 'strut' circled in the following pic is called a 'reaching strut'....? Otherwise....?
Where might I find someone with whom I can discuss the possible merits and requirements of mounting such in a much smaller boat? Here...?

 

[flaming]

Should be noted that if you are racing then such a strut is not legal unless changed by the SIs of the event.

Use of Outriggers

50.3

1. (a) No sail shall be sheeted over or through an outrigger, except as permitted in rule 50.3(b) or 50.3(c). An outrigger is any fitting or other device so placed that it could exert outward pressure on a sheet or sail at a point from which, with the boat upright, a vertical line would fall outside the hull or deck. For the purpose of this rule, bulwarks, rails and rubbing strakes are not part of the hull or deck and the following are not outriggers: a bowsprit used to secure the tack of a sail, a bumkin used to sheet the boom of a sail, or a boom of a boomed headsail that requires no adjustment when tacking.
2. (b) Any sail may be sheeted to or led above a boom that is regularly used for a sail and is permanently attached to the mast from which the head of the sail is set.
3. (c) A headsail may be sheeted or attached at its clew to a spinnaker pole or whisker pole, provided that a spinnaker is not set.

 

[zoidberg]

Thanks, 'Flaming - well-known member'. It's unlikely I'll be racing my boat under RRS. I reiterate the OP questions....

BTW, there's some informed discussion here: RRS Outriggers
It seems they are useful on some reaches, and those who have tried them, keep them.

 

[DFL1010]

Thanks, 'Flaming - well-known member'. It's unlikely I'll be racing my boat under RRS. I reiterate the OP questions....

How delightfully patronising.

BTW, there's some informed discussion here: RRS Outriggers
It seems they are useful on some reaches, and those who have tried them, keep them.

I'm not sure that is useful evidence to support the conclusion - sails could be designed around their use, and the boat remeasured/re-engineered for their use, and the capex.
A large-scale big budget campaign that's not afraid to change things would be a useful case study - for example think of all the iterations of WOXI we've had.


As to your initial question regarding rigging and sail shape/handling, I'd perhaps suggest a rigger and/or a sailmaker?

 

[flaming]

It's going to depend a lot on the type of boat too... And the sort of sail you are looking to use them with. The discussion on SA focussed on fast modern boats setting "code" type sail.

So what sort of boat, and what sort of sail...?

 

[zoidberg]

'Patronising'...? Not intended, so apologies. 'Flaming' has my respect....

I've queried two sailmakers, who expressed mild interest but suggested no knowledge. 'Can't do any harm' was the broad consensus. The one rigger I'd queried re relevant experience simply offered to sell me a Selden carbon strut intended for another purpose.

I took a couple of thoughts from that SA thread:

I think we can all agree that rating rules and IOR, in particular, have at times inhibited innovation. - BooBill #6

and

Those classes that like them, mainly long distance ones where it makes a real difference, can allow them. Simple, really.
As a long distance cruiser with only a deck sweeping high aspect 100% headsail, I like them very much too... Fiji Bitter #7

That's close to my expected usage, on a 27' full keel boat. My genoa is about 125%, and I'll fly an asymmetric reacher spi when appropriate.

 

[flaming]

Honestly I think the advantage will be fairly limited and unlikely to really be worth the effort of lugging the pole around.

If you remember that the boats that make the most use out of reach struts, whether that's "legal" whisker poles or "illegal" outriggers, they are fast planing boats with stacks of righting moment. So as they reach, it's a real advantage to keep opening up the sheeting point of the jib as they are able to accelerate past their hull speed and are looking for a clean exit with no "return" (i.e directing the flow back to windward) at the back of the sail to minimise the drag.
That doesn't really apply to you, as you have fairly minimal righting moment, and on a reach are not able to accelerate much past hull speed, if at all, so ensuring a low drag shape isn't going to give you very big gains at all.

Same goes with setting a reaching kite. The reason boats with big A-Sails want that outrigger at the stern is to widen the sheeting angle, especially when going further downwind, again to reduce the "return" in the sail shape and reduce drag.
Again, these are not the things that are limiting your boat's speed potential. And when going deeper downwind you would be better off setting a conventional spinnaker.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I don’t know what they are called but if you look closely at the stb quarter there is another one ready for deployment when on a port tack.

 

[Cariadco]

I don’t know what they are called but if you look closely at the stb quarter there is another one ready for deployment when on a port tack.

Bloody Hell your eyes are good....

 

[zoidberg]

Honestly I think the advantage will be fairly limited and......

Thanks for that. Helps clarify.

I'm sure I'll find something else to fiddle about with....

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Surey an easier way of extending your headsail, and flattening it on a reach is to have a suitable length pole set from the spinnaker pole fittings? All legal too. No boat mods, no extra controls.

 

[zoidberg]

Surey an easier way of extending your headsail, and flattening it on a reach is to have a suitable length pole set from the spinnaker pole fittings? All legal too. No boat mods, no extra controls.

Another way, C'slave, might be to fit twin outriggers, fore and aft, bolt onto an outboard float of sorts ( let's call it an 'ama' in recognition of my great-grandfather's wet nurse ) and rig a sort-of-outhaul onto the jib sheet ( could we call that a 'twing-thing'? ) to achieve the required positioning of the clew?

And if that worked, we could rig much the same assembly on t'other side of the boat to save moving everything over when tacking/gybing.....

Gosh! That would give us a configuration rather like the one in 'Chiara's slave's avatar-pic.... Which is a rather good way to go, n'est ce pas?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Ah, yes, what a great idea! In fact, you could make it adjustable. Run a line from the outboard end if the forward arm, though a double ended block, to a block on the outboard end of the aft arm, and back to a cockpit winch. Then thread the jib sheet through the other end of the double ended block, and there you have a fully adjustable barber hauler of stupendous proportions. Works a treat?

 

[zoidberg]

That's a great idea! What else...?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Oh, powerful running backstays, square top fully battened main, also great contributors to reaching performance. And ditch the keel whilst you are at it.

 

[zoidberg]

I have a feeling your wee boat was designed and built by a pair of Danes.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We should be sailing in helmets with horns

 

[zoidberg]

Lots of 'hygge'.... but the induction hobs died swiftly and permanently.

 

[RJJ]

Honestly I think the advantage will be fairly limited and unlikely to really be worth the effort of lugging the pole around.

If you remember that the boats that make the most use out of reach struts, whether that's "legal" whisker poles or "illegal" outriggers, they are fast planing boats with stacks of righting moment. So as they reach, it's a real advantage to keep opening up the sheeting point of the jib as they are able to accelerate past their hull speed and are looking for a clean exit with no "return" (i.e directing the flow back to windward) at the back of the sail to minimise the drag.
That doesn't really apply to you, as you have fairly minimal righting moment, and on a reach are not able to accelerate much past hull speed, if at all, so ensuring a low drag shape isn't going to give you very big gains at all.

Same goes with setting a reaching kite. The reason boats with big A-Sails want that outrigger at the stern is to widen the sheeting angle, especially when going further downwind, again to reduce the "return" in the sail shape and reduce drag.
Again, these are not the things that are limiting your boat's speed potential. And when going deeper downwind you would be better off setting a conventional spinnaker.

There's more advantage to cruisers than you suggest.

Power reaching with a big genoa designed for upwind, I.e. low clew, we are considering how to regain not only power but efficiency by using a strut. Reducing the "return" can increase available power (mainly by pointing it better towards the bow). It can also reduce drag and heeling moment, allowing us to sail flatter and with better control. And potentially to have equal speed with a smaller sail, if desired, reducing strain on the rig.

In less powered conditions below hull sp at the same wind angle, the strut could give you more control so that you set the sail optimally all the way up...more power, less drag, more speed.

Depending on the hull form, the hull speed constraint is not rigid. A somewhat light boat with a fine entry, which includes many ordinary AWBs since 2000 or so (as well as fancy Pogoes etc) can exceed hull speed by a couple of knots on a beam reach.

I quite fancy the idea. But would I invest in the kit? Probably not

 

[flaming]

There's more advantage to cruisers than you suggest.

Power reaching with a big genoa designed for upwind, I.e. low clew, we are considering how to regain not only power but efficiency by using a strut. Reducing the "return" can increase available power (mainly by pointing it better towards the bow). It can also reduce drag and heeling moment, allowing us to sail flatter and with better control. And potentially to have equal speed with a smaller sail, if desired, reducing strain on the rig.

In less powered conditions below hull sp at the same wind angle, the strut could give you more control so that you set the sail optimally all the way up...more power, less drag, more speed.

Depending on the hull form, the hull speed constraint is not rigid. A somewhat light boat with a fine entry, which includes many ordinary AWBs since 2000 or so (as well as fancy Pogoes etc) can exceed hull speed by a couple of knots on a beam reach.

I quite fancy the idea. But would I invest in the kit? Probably not

I see what you're saying... But I think the gains would be very small. If they weren't I'd expect the offshore boys who still sail more traditional boats to be equipping to have them... And they're not....