Reaching struts

[zoidberg]

I'd expect the offshore boys who still sail more traditional boats to be equipping to have them... And they're not....

I'm a little surprised by 'flaming', a knowledgeable thinker, offering that. Perhaps one might better ask them 'why not' and examine the answers.

 

[flaming]

I'm a little surprised by 'flaming', a knowledgeable thinker, offering that. Perhaps one might better ask them 'why not' and examine the answers.

Because it's not deemed to be worth either the expense or the weight / hassle of carrying a whisker pole for the task....

Honestly, if you're looking for things to make your boat faster.... There are a hundred things you could do that would make much more difference before you got to a reaching strut...

 

[zoidberg]

Well, yes....

I could buy/fit a fully-battened mainsail with Selden OWS sliders ( done that ), I could ask an interested sailmaker to make me some sexy 'go-faster' headsails ( tried that - the last two I asked just couldn't be bothered ), I could scrape the barnacles off my anode, I could swop my standing rigging for something much thinner and lighter, I could leave the tonic at home and just ship the cold gin..... I could even lose a bit of weight myself.

.... and I could ship my two 'racing anchors' in accord with OSRs 22/23 4.06.2



But, my dear and respected 'flaming', I have an 'out of the box' kind of mind, know that making '5% better' tactical/tidal calls pays off far more than making '5% better' hull speed..... and I'd really, truly like to hear a selection of 'the hundred things' you mention.

 

[flaming]

In no particular order....

Folding prop
Really good fairing job on the bottom
Reduce rudder size to the minimum you can get away with
Specialist reaching "zero"
Mast jack / other more suitable way of quickly adjusting rig tune.
Genoa staysail
Jib Top sail for higher wind reaching
Arrange the stores so that they can be stacked to windward
Driving tips from a top offshore racer

etc... etc....

 

[zoidberg]

Thanks for that, 'flaming'.

Some of those I can consider in discussion with a receptive/bored/underemployed sailmaker.

I can't fit a folding prop - no spare space in the aperture. I could take it right off.....
Rudder-less? One of my 'Jester' friends tried that. It all fell off halfway to the Azores last year.
Hydraulix mast jack? I might need one anyway to shore up my aged mast-beam across the top of the bulkhead.
Pump the rioja from port to starboard when appropriate? Yes, I could arrange that. I could also rig stowage for polypins of SA/Aussie red, which would be easier to portage about from side to side.

I suspect 'top offshore racers' would be reticent to be seen anywhere near my old boat, out of fears for their 'street cred'.....

At the root... is Colin Chapman's obsession with light weight. "Simplificate, then add lightness", he said. It was his way before 'minimalism' became fashionable. "Adding power makes you faster on the straights; subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere".

But.... but.... one has to bear in mind 'Team Philips', 'PRB' and 'Hugo Boss'.

'In order to finish first, you first have to finish.....'

 

[Neeves]

I don't stray here often but

I note a couple of comments like - 'I would do other things before the expense of a strut'. We don't know if the OP has bottomless pockets, whether he was given strut and is wondering if he can usefully use it.

I think the OP is looking for any answers and he'll mull them over and maybe ask supplementary questions - forget the expense just give the ideas without the restrictions. Sadly one of the better idea - get rid of the keel will fall on deaf ears - some people are so set in their ways

I have found the thread educational and suspect there is more knowledge that needs a bit of provocation or encouragement.

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

What would you anchor reaching struts to? We’ve recently added a bowsprit, which is 50mm carbon pole, with custom stainless end fittings, A friend machined and welded them for us. We have dyneema side and bobstays, with a bottlescrew on the bobstay. Ends are spliced. You’d need most of that on a reaching strut. I reckon, if we’d had the ends of our sprit made commercially the whole lot would have cost about £380 inc stays.

 

[flaming]

What would you anchor reaching struts to? We’ve recently added a bowsprit, which is 50mm carbon pole, with custom stainless end fittings, A friend machined and welded them for us. We have dyneema side and bobstays, with a bottlescrew on the bobstay. Ends are spliced. You’d need most of that on a reaching strut. I reckon, if we’d had the ends of our sprit made commercially the whole lot would have cost about £380 inc stays.

Nothing like that much. Most just sit on a socket.
IRC legal ones have to be mast mounted. Kind of like a reverse jockey pole from days of yore....

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Nothing like that much. Most just sit on a socket.
IRC legal ones have to be mast mounted. Kind of like a reverse jockey pole from days of yore....

I suggested a mast mounted one at the start of the thread. Sitting in a socket is what the big boys do. I wondered what Zoidberg had in mind. Spinnaker pole fitting to a suitable strong point?

 

[zoidberg]

Some clarification of 'intent'.....

I expect to order ( re-order - as the original order, now cancelled, placed at SIBS 11 months ago just wasn't built. The prominent sailmaker just didn't )
a 120-130% genoa-jib, for light weather beating/reaching. The sheeting base is relatively narrow, so perhaps a reaching strut might help stabilise that sail on a reach, giving my windvane thingy an easier time.

I happen to have a number of aviation-grade control struts ( 135 / 180 / 60cm )....

.... and thought I might be able to use one or more of these. I have more.

A further more challenging task is that of providing a boom or strut from which to fly a furling asy-spi, with torque line, I already have. I first considered a Selden boom kit, then a homebuilt version, again as I have suitable ( dia x wall ) alloy tubing. The 'topography' at the bows makes this most difficult, not least as I cannot quite get hands right forward/inside to manipulate glasscloth/bolts reinforcement, and the bronze bow fitting is precariously attached using simple screws. The white alloy boom shown below overlays the substantial headstay/deck fitting. I can't see a satisfactory way to secure the headstay 'through' the tube'.

I'm now considering the Trogear 'V'ed twin boom-type arrangement fitted below the teak trim.

Optimally, I'd use a couple of the longer alloy control struts.

Thoughts?

 

[flaming]

Some clarification of 'intent'.....

I expect to order ( re-order - as the original order, now cancelled, placed at SIBS 11 months ago just wasn't built. The prominent sailmaker just didn't )
a 120-130% genoa-jib, for light weather beating/reaching. The sheeting base is relatively narrow, so perhaps a reaching strut might help stabilise that sail on a reach, giving my windvane thingy an easier time.

I happen to have a number of aviation-grade control struts ( 135 / 180 / 60cm )....

.... and thought I might be able to use one or more of these. I have more.

A further more challenging task is that of providing a boom or strut from which to fly a furling asy-spi, with torque line, I already have. I first considered a Selden boom kit, then a homebuilt version, again as I have suitable ( dia x wall ) alloy tubing. The 'topography' at the bows makes this most difficult, not least as I cannot quite get hands right forward/inside to manipulate glasscloth/bolts reinforcement, and the bronze bow fitting is precariously attached using simple screws. The white alloy boom shown below overlays the substantial headstay/deck fitting. I can't see a satisfactory way to secure the headstay 'through' the tube'.

I'm now considering the Trogear 'V'ed twin boom-type arrangement fitted below the teak trim.

Optimally, I'd use a couple of the longer alloy control struts.

Thoughts?

The twin boom arrangement will be your best bet there I'd have thought. The longer the better.

The use of one of those poles as a reaching strut won't hurt (providing you arrange a suitable mounting point...) but I'm sticking to my original opinion that any gain will be very marginal.

 

[01_Anna]

Quote:
I'm now considering the Trogear 'V'ed twin boom-type arrangement fitted below the teak trim.

You might find those two links of interest.
The first is a low cost- but working solution, the other semi professional job. If you search for A-frame bowsprit, you might find more examples of sucessfull DIY (German / Dutch sailors).

https://www.beneteau235.com/f235_mods-bowsprit_a-frame.htm#update
DIY carbon A-frame bowsprit
The idea is not new, and the A frame could be mounted over the deck (i.e. in a suitable attachment ); which removes the need of through hull drilling.

 

[westernman]

What would you anchor reaching struts to? We’ve recently added a bowsprit, which is 50mm carbon pole, with custom stainless end fittings, A friend machined and welded them for us. We have dyneema side and bobstays, with a bottlescrew on the bobstay. Ends are spliced. You’d need most of that on a reaching strut. I reckon, if we’d had the ends of our sprit made commercially the whole lot would have cost about £380 inc stays.

A two inch bowsprit won't impress the ladies.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

A two inch bowsprit won't impress the ladies.

I’m like an elephant. I've got four feet.

 

[RJJ]

I see what you're saying... But I think the gains would be very small. If they weren't I'd expect the offshore boys who still sail more traditional boats to be equipping to have them... And they're not....

Some òf the traditional keelboat classes use their whisker pole as a reaching strut. Thinking Bembridge Redwings