Re-powering options.

[moresparks]

O/K. I know from the outset this doesn’t make economic sense for my boat, but I have had a catastrophic failure on one of my engines and parts are nonexistent
So.. it is what it is I am afraid.
The original engines are straight 4 petrols (170HP) and are basically shoehorned into the engine locker and the gap between the 2 is quite narrow. All new replacements in the power range (50 to 200HP) are V6’s and a lot wider, so major transom work will need to be undertaken – even then I may struggle.
The Sterndrives are Volvo 290 SP-A’s and are in good condition.
So .. looking for Options.
Local dealers has suggested that “refurbished” diesels are like gold dust and rarely available.
A new Diesel Sterndrive in my power range will be too expensive, and I have been told there is a long lead time.
The remanufactured engine suppliers are suggesting they cannot supply engines to replace the AQ series.
A single V8 petrol would fit, but again - expensive.
One solution would be a couple of KAD32’s but they are getting old now and some spares are not available, but they should fit the Sterndrives after checking the gear ratio.
So looking for ideas really and a recommended supplier of engines, the last thing I want is to do all the work and still have reliability issues – or take up Kayaking!

 

[chillee]

might be worth having a chat with Coastal rides if not already done so. They seemed to have used VP engines in stock when I was exploring an upgrade last year.

 

[James jameson]

it’s a can of worms and isn’t going to be cheap

A pair of KAD32s will be expensive prob in the region of £7k upwards each for a good engine especially if rebuilt,
The drives more than likely twill be the wrong ratios so that’s a cost to replace
also if the original engines are too close together the kads will prob be even wider.
you’ll come up against exhaust riser compatability issues and more than likely have to replace those, engine beds will be wrong if the engines are wider,
Props will be wrong, and it goes on and everything is x2

A single engine much as the boat modification works would come with a cost you’re more likely to find an engine esp petrol at a far cheaper cost than 2 diesels, if your drives or at least one are good you can re fit that
Prob still have to change the exhaust riser (but they rot anyway)
you have an engine and a drive to sell which can off set some of the costs if the engine is obsolete then someone else coukd be desperate for an engine for spares

if you’re having to pay anyone to do the work your seriously in to spending money as the engineer hours are going to high and they aren’t really going to want to fit lots of old parts

There is little saving in fuel these days and the actual engine run hours would take a long time to burn the difference in fuel

if it was me I would be looking to source a replacement used engine and moving the boat on unless you are going to keep the boat a long time then invest in re engine works

you dont say what the dead engine is or what’s actually happened to it ?

 

[ST840]

Don't know what boat you have, but would a switch to outboards be an option??

 

[moresparks]

Hi – you are right; it is a can of worms and not something I want to do for “fun”.
The engines are aging AQ171c’s and it’s been a constant battle to keep them running. The last episode has broken the end off one of the camshafts and the locating pin of the cam wheel has also sheared at the other end. A real mystery as the timing belt is fairly new, undamaged and timing all o/k. This in turn (or because of) has damaged valves which also caused damage to the piston. All done whilst idling! All things are repairable except for the camshaft which is just not available despite many hours of searching and trawling web pages. The camshaft is unique to these engines and the Auto version is different. No panic yet as a donor engine may come up in the next few weeks – but just looking at options at the moment. A lot of the restoration work I will do myself where I can so a nice autumn / winter project.

 

[Aardee]

What boat is it and how much is it worth with working engines? - It could come down to a "lesser of two evils" decision

 

[oldgit]

4 cyl Nanni or Yanmar.?
Refurbed Yanmar on eBay recently sold for £2.5 K.
Complete with controls and dash.

 

[QBhoy]

Surely the most common and successful of them all, would be in the range you mention ? The 3.0 GM 4 cylinder ? But if you are having to change the mounts anyway…might as well go for the v6 gms. Both widely available and likely the cheapest of most engines to maintain.
No doubt, diesels may be better for fuelling and economy…but my goodness…it would take a good few decades (if at all) to see the financial outlay over the hugely cheaper gm carb Petrols, make any headway on a return to your pocket. Tough one.

 

[fred247]

a change from petrol to diesel will also require a leg change - different gear ratio's - diesels slower revving

 

[James jameson]

Hi – you are right; it is a can of worms and not something I want to do for “fun”.
The engines are aging AQ171c’s and it’s been a constant battle to keep them running. The last episode has broken the end off one of the camshafts and the locating pin of the cam wheel has also sheared at the other end. A real mystery as the timing belt is fairly new, undamaged and timing all o/k. This in turn (or because of) has damaged valves which also caused damage to the piston. All done whilst idling! All things are repairable except for the camshaft which is just not available despite many hours of searching and trawling web pages. The camshaft is unique to these engines and the Auto version is different. No panic yet as a donor engine may come up in the next few weeks – but just looking at options at the moment. A lot of the restoration work I will do myself where I can so a nice autumn / winter project.

How different is the automotive man shaft ?
if the bearings etc are in the same place if can only be cam lobes which might alter performance but by enough to notice ?
what about change the whole head for an automotive one valve train the lot ?
as you are not in a massive rush i would be watching the usual eBay etc and see what comes up, as there are loads if these engines around you may well get lucky and find someone who is re powering or just breaking a boat

 

[Fishtigua]

Have a look a the Hyundai diesels. We've fitted quite a few in tight engine spaces.

Hyundai Seasall Marine Engines – Engines Plus

This is one of ours.

https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/HSE03-R200-Pirate-boats.pdf

 

[ChromeDome]

Fairline Targa 27, right?

First of all you need to decide your budget and realise if the investment, the value of the boat (not just what you have already put into it, but current sale value as well as the estimated value after repowering) and the period you intend to keep it, makes sense. And to estimate the resale value of removed parts.

The engine was made for cars in several variants and was called the B230 which is still around, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a can of worms when you look at the overall picture and the potential challenges of reusing marine parts, sterndrives etc in the future. In any case an economic concern.

In my book, outboard conversion should be investigated further.

Of course, you need to decide how much power you need (your 171s probably don't provide the claimed power anymore, but it's a good basis for the decision), whether it should be one or two engines and then make/buy a bracket that can handle it, but technically it's less complicated than engines with drives. No gimbals or bellows and no problems with access,- on the other hand there is no cooling circuit to draw heat from for domestic hot water. For me, it's an advantage to get rid of petrol engines buried in the hull.. safety-wise.
You will also have to redesign the dashboard to some extent and replace remote controls. Possibly also work on electrical connections.

As a benefit you get a lot of extra space in the boat when the engines come out.

Remember to check with insurance if T&C, coverage and premium will be the same as current.

The Americans have been doing this for decades, so you can find inspiration on the web by searching for outboard bracket (also videos)

 

[James jameson]

Fairline Targa 27, right?

First of all you need to decide your budget and realise if the investment, the value of the boat (not just what you have already put into it, but current sale value as well as the estimated value after repowering) and the period you intend to keep it, makes sense. And to estimate the resale value of removed parts.

The engine was made for cars in several variants and was called the B230 which is still around, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a can of worms when you look at the overall picture and the potential challenges of reusing marine parts, sterndrives etc in the future. In any case an economic concern.

In my book, outboard conversion should be investigated further.

Of course, you need to decide how much power you need (your 171s probably don't provide the claimed power anymore, but it's a good basis for the decision), whether it should be one or two engines and then make/buy a bracket that can handle it, but technically it's less complicated than engines with drives. No gimbals or bellows and no problems with access,- on the other hand there is no cooling circuit to draw heat from for domestic hot water. For me, it's an advantage to get rid of petrol engines buried in the hull.. safety-wise.
You will also have to redesign the dashboard to some extent and replace remote controls. Possibly also work on electrical connections.

As a benefit you get a lot of extra space in the boat when the engines come out.

Remember to check with insurance if T&C, coverage and premium will be the same as current.

The Americans have been doing this for decades, so you can find inspiration on the web by searching for outboard bracket (also videos)

the other possible issue with converting to outboard would also need to be ultimately how hard would it be to sell on
I have seen some conversions that handle extremely poorly and border on dangerous

 

[moresparks]

As much as I like Outboards and understand the logic, I just don’t think it would suit my boat on this occasion. The Bathing platform is part of the deck moulding and would need serious modification / cutting for this to work.
The reliability factor of these old engines means I am not very enthusiastic in fixing as they have always been fragile. If I cannot get the parts or a donor engine it looking more like a large single engine. With a new engine(s) I will look at keeping the boat for a number of years as it is ideal for me.

 

[QBhoy]

As much as I like Outboards and understand the logic, I just don’t think it would suit my boat on this occasion. The Bathing platform is part of the deck moulding and would need serious modification / cutting for this to work.
The reliability factor of these old engines means I am not very enthusiastic in fixing as they have always been fragile. If I cannot get the parts or a donor engine it looking more like a large single engine. With a new engine(s) I will look at keeping the boat for a number of years as it is ideal for me.

Throw a couple of 3.0 GM engines in there, I think they will be the option for me…all things considered. There isn’t another marine engine on the planet that can boast the success and track record they have.

 

[Fishtigua]

Throw a couple of 3.0 GM engines in there, I think they will be the option for me…all things considered. There isn’t another marine engine on the planet that can boast the success and track record they have.

The 3.0 is no longer made, spares are getting like rocking horse wotsit and they were good in their day but that day was 40 years ago. The motor was designed in the 60's for industrial use only, not automotive. When was the last time you saw a petrol forklift?

I've thrown more in the scrap in the last 10 years than I care to remember, piles of them.

I know of a nice Austin Allegro for sale too but not going beat a path to it's door either.

 

[tico]

Try talking to Mike at lancing marine.
Pair of puma/fsdti diesels and some fiddling with the props
I did this many years ago

 

[ChromeDome]

Pair of Merc 3.0 135 hp, £3.750 + VAT each.

MerCruiser 3.0 LX for sale UK, MerCruiser boats for sale, MerCruiser used boat sales, MerCruiser Engines For Sale Mercruiser 3.0 LX 135hp Petrol Sterndrive Engine (Pair Available) - Apollo Duck

Pair of TAMD 31 with drives - POA
Volvo Penta TAMD31 for sale UK, Volvo Penta boats for sale, Volvo Penta used boat sales, Volvo Penta Engines For Sale Volvo TAMD 31 - Apollo Duck

 

[QBhoy]

The 3.0 is no longer made, spares are getting like rocking horse wotsit and they were good in their day but that day was 40 years ago. The motor was designed in the 60's for industrial use only, not automotive. When was the last time you saw a petrol forklift?

I've thrown more in the scrap in the last 10 years than I care to remember, piles of them.

I know of a nice Austin Allegro for sale too but not going beat a path to it's door either.

You’re way off the mark I’m afraid. They are still out in boats today. Without doubt thee most successful engine ever put in a boat. Most numerous too, as far as I know.
you can still buy them new now. Countless suppliers of them everywhere you look. As for spares not being available…I’m afraid that’s just not true either.
I can only think that you may be thinking of a different engine altogether. Perhaps the 3.7l ? Just when you mention the fork lift origins.

 

[nfluester]

Have u checked out lancing marine they do conversions of Ford and Peugeot van engines to volvo stern drives and they supply reconditioned engines and marinising kits.

Definitely worth a call and a chat

Price Book - Page 24