Re-flagging under the Irish Registry

Koeketiene said:
Well, if I have not missed anything in previous posts, it was your intention to use an agent in Ireland...



True, but the legal system in most continental EU countries is based on Napolionc Law - just like in France.
And if you are looking to sell in Europe...



Info here: Immatriculation d'un bateau de plaisance (pour la navigation en mer)

I am not arguing in favour of French registration - don't see how I could since I did not register in France myself.
However, being a kind of lazy I always look for the easiest solution.
Since you own a French based boat, French registration seemed like the most obvious route to me.

Good luck with your endeavours - whichever route you go down.
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DOCUMENTS A JOINDRE A LA PRESENTE FICHESont obligatoirement francisés les navires de plaisance dont la longueur est égale ou supérieure à 7 mètres, ainsi queceux d’une longueur inférieure désirant se rendre dans les eaux territoriales étrangères.Lors de la première francisation d’un navire, le dossier doit être adressé en premier au service des douanes et comporteren plus les documents suivants:un formulaire de demande de francisation,une photo d’identité récente,un justificatif de domicile et, pour les ressortissants européens résidant moins de 6 mois sur le territoire français, unedéclaration sur l’honneur,un certificat de non-similitude de nom établi par les Affaires maritimes pour les navires ayant une longueur égale ousupérieure à 24 mètres,un certificat fiscal (pour les navires de 7,5 mètres et plus acquis hors de France),un relevé d’identité bancaire

I think the highlighted passage means I would have to prove residence in France, which I can't.
 
Poignard said:
DOCUMENTS A JOINDRE A LA PRESENTE FICHESont obligatoirement francisés les navires de plaisance dont la longueur est égale ou supérieure à 7 mètres, ainsi queceux d’une longueur inférieure désirant se rendre dans les eaux territoriales étrangères.Lors de la première francisation d’un navire, le dossier doit être adressé en premier au service des douanes et comporteren plus les documents suivants:un formulaire de demande de francisation,une photo d’identité récente,un justificatif de domicile et, pour les ressortissants européens résidant moins de 6 mois sur le territoire français, unedéclaration sur l’honneur,un certificat de non-similitude de nom établi par les Affaires maritimes pour les navires ayant une longueur égale ousupérieure à 24 mètres,un certificat fiscal (pour les navires de 7,5 mètres et plus acquis hors de France),un relevé d’identité bancaire

I think the highlighted passage means I would have to prove residence in France, which I can't.
Click to expand...

Not quite: pour les ressortissants européens résidant moins de 6 mois sur le territoire français, unedéclaration sur l’honneur -> for European nationals residing less than 6 months on French territory, a declaration on your honour (basically - you declare that you are who you claim to be).
 
Koeketiene said:
Not quite: pour les ressortissants européens résidant moins de 6 mois sur le territoire français, unedéclaration sur l’honneur -> for European nationals residing less than 6 months on French territory, a declaration on your honour (basically - you declare that you are who you claim to be).
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Aye, but does that mean EU nationals only or does it also encompass those Europeans like we British who are beyond the EU pale?
 
JBJag27 said:
Belgian flag is popular in Spain, so presumably not too onerous?
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I have a Belgian friend who lives in Brussels but keeps his boat in Brittany. In the yard where I dry-sail from in Brittany there are boats with Dutch, German, Belgian, Italian, French and, for the time being anyway, British ports of registry painted on their sterns.
 
GHA said:
Sounds like an awful lot of hassle based on guesswork..
As soon as you sell the boat the registration is no longer valid, hard to see how something which won't exist would have any effect?
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Afaik Registration remains valid following sale, subject to the right to register of the purchaser...
 
Poignard said:
I was wrong about that SI. It was revoked by the Merchant Shipping (Registration of Ships) Act 2014. I don't know why and I am trying to find out whether it was replaced by a later SI containing a "Reciprocating State" clause
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Just to confuse you more... sections 1 to 68 of the the 2014 act have not yet been commenced (see section 3 commencement is required) I suspect this is part of the million pieces of legislation that will be commenced if Brexit becomes real.
 
I think the reality is that if you have no right to a European registered boat then you are not going to be comfortable with one...

I have no right to a boat on the UK ssr... I could easily pretend to my self and others... but when the gunboat pulls alongside my boat with the red duster on the back and I produce the Paddy passport the eyebrows will go up....

I suspect the opposite will also occur if you have a lovely green white and orange tricolour on the stern, and a new pretty blue passport.
 
pandos said:
Just to confuse you more... sections 1 to 68 of the the 2014 act have not yet been commenced (see section 3 commencement is required) I suspect this is part of the million pieces of legislation that will be commenced if Brexit becomes real.
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Well spotted!

And this afternoon an official in the Revenue Office sent me a Department of Transport Guidance Note containing the reciprocity clause.

Makes you wonder if the Irish legislators could see which way the Brexit wind was blowing as far back as 2014 ;)
 
W
Poignard said:
Well spotted!

And this afternoon an official in the Revenue Office sent me a Department of Transport Guidance Note containing the reciprocity clause.

Makes you wonder if the Irish legislators could see which way the Brexit wind was blowing as far back as 2014 ;)
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Who do you think dreamed up Brexit... And put the Paddy in the Whitehouse ??
 
Poignard said:
Aye, but does that mean EU nationals only or does it also encompass those Europeans like we British who are beyond the EU pale?
Click to expand...

Took a while, but managed to check with a 'friendly' official.

The long and short of it is that you have to be a EU/EEA/CH national to qualify.
So, this means most of Europe, apart from: Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania and Macedonia.
It depends what sort of Brexit we're getting. Deal or no deal. In case of a deal, the UK will most likely still be a EEA member.
If not, ...
 
Beneteau381 said:
Was, theyve stopped that little game now. My neighbours in Albufeira are trying to unravel theirs.
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Quite so.
Belgian registry is no longer easy to come by.

When I changed boats in April the number of administrative hoops they made me jump through was impressive.
- Proof of history of ownership (all the way up to new).
- Proof of ECD compliance or of exemption.
- Proof of VAT status.
- Proof of CE compliance of the engine or exemption.
All for a 1977 boat.
Kept me busy for a few days.
 
Poignard said:
What was that 'little game'? I haven't heard about that one.
Click to expand...

Belgian registry was quite popular until a few years back.
Mainly in France.
A way for French owners to get around French safety requirements.
Also, no permis de bateau required to sail a Belgian boat.
When we moved our previous boat to Brittany, there were about a dozen Belgian reg boat in our home port.
Right now, just two.
 
Sorry for dragging up an old thread, but has anyone had any success in registering an older boat on the Irish Registry without an unbroken history of ownership? I'm currently very interested in a boat which is currently on the UK SSR, but it does not come with an original builders certificate or a complete history of ownership. I'm trying to figure out if there is some workaround, but can not get anyone at any of the Ships Registrars in Ireland on the phone.

Cheers
All Winds
 
AllWinds said:
Sorry for dragging up an old thread, but has anyone had any success in registering an older boat on the Irish Registry without an unbroken history of ownership? I'm currently very interested in a boat which is currently on the UK SSR, but it does not come with an original builders certificate or a complete history of ownership. I'm trying to figure out if there is some workaround, but can not get anyone at any of the Ships Registrars in Ireland on the phone.

Cheers
All Winds
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A friend of mine tried this recently and was met with a brick wall...

I am halfways through registering mine and am hopefull that I have sufficient paperwork, but some are photocopies so not sure how that will work out...

There's always the Polish registry...
 
AllWinds said:
Sorry for dragging up an old thread, but has anyone had any success in registering an older boat on the Irish Registry without an unbroken history of ownership? I'm currently very interested in a boat which is currently on the UK SSR, but it does not come with an original builders certificate or a complete history of ownership. I'm trying to figure out if there is some workaround, but can not get anyone at any of the Ships Registrars in Ireland on the phone.

Cheers
All Winds
Click to expand...
It's a good number of years since I did it but my recollection is that I only needed 5 years of ownership history.
 
pandos said:
A friend of mine tried this recently and was met with a brick wall...

I am halfways through registering mine and am hopefull that I have sufficient paperwork, but some are photocopies so not sure how that will work out...

There's always the Polish registry...
Click to expand...
Cheers Pandos, do you know what your friend did after the brick wall? Polish Registry?

Irish Rover said:
It's a good number of years since I did it but my recollection is that I only needed 5 years of ownership history.
Click to expand...
Was your boat previously on a Title Registry rather than an SSR? I believe that if the boat was previously on a Title registry you only need to show the proof of purchase back to it's deletion from the Title registry and provide the Deletion certificate.

Which raises another question... At least in Theory, would it be possible to buy the boat, register it on another Title Registry in Europe then transfer it from that Title Registry to the Irish one?

Cheers
All Winds
 
@AllWinds It was on the UK SSR when I bought it and as far as I remember I did a transfer of ownership and kept it on the SSR while I was going through the process in Ireland - SSR wasn't as strict then so it was easier for a Paddy to take liberties.
My initial contact in Ireland was with the Mercantile Marine Office and I found them extremely helpful - most of my communication was email because I'm in Türkiye. Here's their website with contacts etc
Mercantile Marine Office (MMO)
 
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