Re-flagging under the Irish Registry

Poignard

Poignard

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I have been thinking of doing this with my UK Part 1 registered boat and I see there is a company: Irish Boat Registration Services, offering to arrange everything.

Has anyone dealt with this company and was it OK?
 
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Poignard said:
I have been thinking of doing this with my UK Part 1 registered boat and I see there is a company: Irish Boat Registration Services, offering to arrange everything.

Has anyone dealt with this company and was it OK?
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Is Part 1 the SSR? If so there is no equivalent in Ireland. The only registration system in Ireland is the full blown ships registration system run by the Government Dept of that Marine.
 
Euphonyx said:
Then that's the equivalent of registration under the Merchant Shipping Act. Heres a link. Click on the button at the bottom for a checklist of what is needed to register:

Mercantile Marine Office (MMO)
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Thanks but I have seen that. There is a fair bit of paperwork to be submitted, fees to be paid, and a tonnage survey to be arranged.

IBRS offers to take care of all that.

Obviously they charge for that work, as any agent does, but I am just trying to find out whether anyone has made use of them and whether they were happy with the work done.
 
I registered a boat on the Irish register 10 years ago and since then I've also registered a boat on the Jersey register Part 1. The procedure for both is quite similar although Jersey is much more streamlined as the Registry operates as a one-stop shop whereas in Ireland you have to deal with 3 separate government offices. That said I handled all the Irish registration procedure by e mail from Turkey apart from a couple of documents which had to be posted. The procedure for a tonnage survey sounds a lot more complicated than it is in reality.
I've no experience of the company you mention and they may be excellent but I'd always be wary of dealing with a company whose only contact details are a gmail address and a mobile phone.
 
I just looked them up. Its a relatively new company. Set up at the end of 2019. I haven't heard about them. I see its run off a mobile phone number and a gmail account. There's a guy in Dublin called Brian Matthews. He's a marine surveyor, engineer, yachtmaster etc etc. He's well got in the marine business community here and would be a good person to call. If he knows them then he'd tell you what he thinks. He's a very forthright chap. His company is allspec marine. Maybe worth calling him. At the very least he would do the survey for you and you could handle the rest. Worth a phone call. Here's a link:

Welcome
 
I registered a Beneteau 373 that I brought in from France 5 years ago. I did it myself. Yes , I found it quite job ! We had a Small Ships registry here in the past but it was scrapped. So registering a small pleasure yacht here is no different to a large ship as mentioned above.
I had to get the boat " measured" by the "Marine Survey office"- even though all the specs are available on line. The surveyor comes on board and" measures " the boat. You end up with an " Irish Tonnage Certificate " and a hull "Carving Number" that must be etched or carved on a timber plate and fixed permanently to the Hull. He came back for a 2nd visit to verify the number was displayed! So the boat has to be available for inspection.
I had to have documents showing proof of de registry in France and also proof that Vat was paid in France( The original Vat Invoice for the purchase of the boat) otherwise there was Vat due. So there was a bit paperwork involved!
I seem to recollect at the time that there was talk of setting up some sort of Small Ships registry again here. It might be worth checking with the Irish Sailing Association, you will find them easily on line. They used to manage the old SSR here and I'm sure they would have the latest information.

Good look with it , Kinsale 373
 
Kinsale373 said:
I registered a Beneteau 373 that I brought in from France 5 years ago. I did it myself. Yes , I found it quite job ! We had a Small Ships registry here in the past but it was scrapped. So registering a small pleasure yacht here is no different to a large ship as mentioned above.
I had to get the boat " measured" by the "Marine Survey office"- even though all the specs are available on line. The surveyor comes on board and" measures " the boat. You end up with an " Irish Tonnage Certificate " and a hull "Carving Number" that must be etched or carved on a timber plate and fixed permanently to the Hull. He came back for a 2nd visit to verify the number was displayed! So the boat has to be available for inspection.
I had to have documents showing proof of de registry in France and also proof that Vat was paid in France( The original Vat Invoice for the purchase of the boat) otherwise there was Vat due. So there was a bit paperwork involved!
I seem to recollect at the time that there was talk of setting up some sort of Small Ships registry again here. It might be worth checking with the Irish Sailing Association, you will find them easily on line. They used to manage the old SSR here and I'm sure they would have the latest information.

Good look with it , Kinsale 373
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Thanks Kinsale, the tonnage survey is the biggest problem. I am in England and my boat is in Brittany and no one can go anywhere!

Will a French surveyor's measurements be acceptable to the Irish authorities?

It seems odd that a yacht on part 1 of the British Register needs re-measuring when it must have been measured when first registered. Also I have the designers dimensioned plans to hand.

Still, their country, their rules.
 
I am about to do this, I am told that it is easier than it is made to seem when looking at their websites. Bill of sale, proof of Vat and cert of de-registration suppossed ly is all that is required, and they arrange a surveyor but the lockdown may have an impact, these things are always easier if you can arrive at the counter in the office and smile...

Of course I need to find the ships paperwork which is lost in my house somewhere...
 
Poignard said:
Thanks Kinsale, the tonnage survey is the biggest problem. I am in England and my boat is in Brittany and no one can go anywhere!

Will a French surveyor's measurements be acceptable to the Irish authorities?

It seems odd that a yacht on part 1 of the British Register needs re-measuring when it must have been measured when first registered. Also I have the designers dimensioned plans to hand.

Still, their country, their rules.
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The tonnage survey is a different animal - something to do with how many casks of wine you can carry onboard. It's a pain they won't accept a previous tonnage survey but it seems that's also the case for the UK and Jersey registers who insist on a new tonnage survey when you're first registering with them.
The Irish authorities have a list of approved international survey organisations which is essentially the same as the list I got from Jersey. When I was registering on the Irish register I used a Surveyor based here in Turkey and when I registered on the Jersey Register I used a surveyor in Greece. Both were British and members of the Yacht Broker Designers and Surveyors Association. Bureau Veritas in France were also on the approved list. I still have some of the guidance information I got from the Irish authorities in 2010 and I can email it to you if you PM me your email address.
 
pandos said:
I am about to do this, I am told that it is easier than it is made to seem when looking at their websites. Bill of sale, proof of Vat and cert of de-registration suppossed ly is all that is required, and they arrange a surveyor but the lockdown may have an impact, these things are always easier if you can arrive at the counter in the office and smile...

Of course I need to find the ships paperwork which is lost in my house somewhere...
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It's definitely not difficult and I found the staff in the Department of Transport, the Marine Survey Office and Revenue very helpful. It should be easier for you being based in Ireland. My boat was in Turkey, VAT unpaid, so I didn't need to prove VAT but my registration certificate was endorsed to the effect that VAT wasn't proven. By the way you arrange the surveyor yourself, submit his details and they send him all the necessary paperwork. Arranging a surveyor through the Yacht Broker Designers and Surveyors Association in the UK was very straightforward and they're also very helpful.
 
GHA said:
What's to be gained by changing?
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I was contemplating this as well.

If the Irish accept UK qualifications then it might be easier than going Spanish flagged which requires Spanish qualifications for a commercial vessel post-brexit. At the very least an Irish commercial YM is likely easier to obtain than learning Spanish given my shamefully poor language skills.

But it seemed complicated so I thought I'd see what the lie of the land was when my despacho expires. I might have to can it and get a real job.
 
GHA said:
What's to be gained by changing?
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I have kept my boat in France for six years and I want to keep her there until I give up sailing and sell her.

On 1st January next year the UK becomes a 'third country' as far as the EU is concerned and my boat, presumably, is likely to become an object of greater interest to French officialdom than when the UK was a Member State.

It is more than likely that I will sell her in France, so selling her with an EU registration is likely to be easier than selling her with a UK registration.
 
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Poignard said:
and my boat, presumably, is likely to become an object of greater interest to French officialdom than when the UK was a Member State.

It is more than likely that I will sell her in France, so selling her with an EU registration is likely to be easier than selling her with a UK registration.
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Sounds like an awful lot of hassle based on guesswork..
As soon as you sell the boat the registration is no longer valid, hard to see how something which won't exist would have any effect?
 
Poignard said:
I have kept my boat in France for six years and I want to keep her ther until I give up sailing and sell her.
On 1st January next year the UK becomes a 'third country' as far as the EU is concerned and my boat, presumably, is likely to become an object of greater interest to French officialdom than when the UK was a Member State.
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Does the fact that your boat lives in France entitle her to be immune from the 6 month limits? (As a third country boat, I believe it is limited to a 6 month stay in the EU (not just France) and thereafter required to be out of the EU for a minimum of 6 months before returning.)
Or are you a "resident"?
 
GHA said:
Sounds like an awful lot of hassle based on guesswork..
As soon as you sell the boat the registration is no longer valid, hard to see how something which won't exist would have any effect?
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The boat remains registered. If that wasn't the case the right to retain her official number and name would immedietely be lost when she is sold. All the new owner needs to do is to notify the Irish Registry of the change of ownership and pay a modest fee.
 
Poignard said:
The boat remains registered. If that wasn't the case the right to retain her official number and name would immedietely be lost when she is sold. All the new owner needs to do is to notify the Irish Registry of the change of ownership and pay a modest fee.
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You would have to sell to an Irish entity though, either person or company resident in Ireland wouldn't you?
 
Graham_Wright said:
Does the fact that your boat lives in France entitle her to be immune from the 6 month limits? (As a third country boat, I believe it is limited to a 6 month stay in the EU (not just France) and thereafter required to be out of the EU for a minimum of 6 months before returning.)
Or are you a "resident"?
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I don't have to be a resident and it is I who will be subject to the 90/180 rule, not the boat; once she is registered in an EU Member State.
 
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