Raymarine sea talk converter E22158

[Keithleask]

Hi all, am busy upgrading the boats electronics, have installed Raymarine E127 MFD, AIS350 looped in the navman vhf radio. , fitted B744v depth speed temp transducer and all seem to be working fine. Was hoping to connect up the old autopilot ST 6000 to the mfd so all could be controlled from the plotter. I asked Raymarine tech the best way to connect the old sea talk 1 and they suggested the E22158 sea talk converter. Ok , so ordered one but reading the manual tonight there are a couple of references which say you cannot connect an autopilot to the converter, which seems to fly in the face of what the techie said , any info on the above would be very helpful, thanks
Ps real use that the 6000 is now an old bit of kit and also asked the techie if I should upgrade the 6000 to 70 control head , which then means the course computer would need upgrading , all understood but the techie said it should work ok but perhaps a slight loss Of data / function not sure to what level of loss that might be!

 

[aquapower]

Hi all, am busy upgrading the boats electronics, have installed Raymarine E127 MFD, AIS350 looped in the navman vhf radio. , fitted B744v depth speed temp transducer and all seem to be working fine. Was hoping to connect up the old autopilot ST 6000 to the mfd so all could be controlled from the plotter. I asked Raymarine tech the best way to connect the old sea talk 1 and they suggested the E22158 sea talk converter. Ok , so ordered one but reading the manual tonight there are a couple of references which say you cannot connect an autopilot to the converter, which seems to fly in the face of what the techie said , any info on the above would be very helpful, thanks
Ps real use that the 6000 is now an old bit of kit and also asked the techie if I should upgrade the 6000 to 70 control head , which then means the course computer would need upgrading , all understood but the techie said it should work ok but perhaps a slight loss Of data / function not sure to what level of loss that might be!

I questioned this a couple of years back and was told that it was old instructions and that it would now work, have fitted quite a few since and all worked ok.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

I was talking to Raymarine on this very subject just a couple of days ago. The seatalk converter will link the old seatalk hs network (your st6000 autopilot) to the seatalk ng (aka raynet) network (your e127 et al) - so you'll be able to see basic autopilot info and control on the e127, but advanced autopilot control will not be available through the e127 (direct course control etc).

 

[Keithleask]

Ok great, thanks for the reply, will give it a try anyway!

 

[Keithleask]

Ok fine thanks, I will set it up and see how it goes , thanks again !

 

[Keithleask]

Just thinking further on regarding direct control, by upgrading the course computer and the control head would I then get that control? Or would it involve more changes ie EV control , rudder reference etc etc ?

 

[aquapower]

I was talking to Raymarine on this very subject just a couple of days ago. The seatalk converter will link the old seatalk hs network (your st6000 autopilot) to the seatalk ng (aka raynet) network (your e127 et al) - so you'll be able to see basic autopilot info and control on the e127, but advanced autopilot control will not be available through the e127 (direct course control etc).

Seatalk ng and Raynet are two seperate things, depends what you are connecting as to which one you use. eg you would use Raynet if linking two displays, sonar or Fusion and instruments would be stng.

 

[aquapower]

Just thinking further on regarding direct control, by upgrading the course computer and the control head would I then get that control? Or would it involve more changes ie EV control , rudder reference etc etc ?

New course computer would require EV but existing rudder ref. compass and pump would work.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Seatalk ng and Raynet are two seperate things, depends what you are connecting as to which one you use. eg you would use Raynet if linking two displays, sonar or Fusion and instruments would be stng.

I thought they were the same network protocol but just with different connectors, no?

 

[aquapower]

I thought they were the same network protocol but just with different connectors, no?

Raynet is faster, its the replacement for the old Ethernet network connectors.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Raynet is faster, its the replacement for the old Ethernet network connectors.

Aha ok thanks. It's quite a challenge trying to understand all their terminology.

 

[Keithleask]

Ok thanks very helpful!

 

[jfm]

Aha ok thanks. It's quite a challenge trying to understand all their terminology.

Yup Raynet is Ethernet but with a bespoke connectors instead of the flat-8 RJ45 connectors, and sea talk NG is nmea2000 with ray connectors instead of industry standard connectors. Raymarine's strategy of taking an industry standard then mucking about with it and forcing use of their connectors is a big part of why I abandoned them and went to Garmin, and I suspect others have done likewise over the years. These days you need Maretron hardware behind the scenes to do a high end installation so you want industry standard connectors

 

[aquapower]

Yup Raynet is Ethernet but with a bespoke connectors instead of the flat-8 RJ45 connectors, and sea talk NG is nmea2000 with ray connectors instead of industry standard connectors. Raymarine's strategy of taking an industry standard then mucking about with it and forcing use of their connectors is a big part of why I abandoned them and went to Garmin, and I suspect others have done likewise over the years. These days you need Maretron hardware behind the scenes to do a high end installation so you want industry standard connectors

There is the device net adaptor cables available for connecting to nmea2000 although perhaps they should have stuck to industry standard connectors, have used these when connecting to Volvo nmea gateways.

 

[jfm]

There is the device net adaptor cables available for connecting to nmea2000 although perhaps they should have stuck to industry standard connectors, have used these when connecting to Volvo nmea gateways.

Oh yes I appreciate that raymarine will sell you adapters to convert their gear to industry standard gear, at £50 a pop or whatever, to add to the premium you already paid for their stng cables compared with n2k cables. And they will confuse you with gender descriptions when ordering them, a problem that doesn't occur when you buy any normal n2k drop cable ( with device net, you have to figure out whether male/ female describes the contact pins or the threaded parts of the connector body, so u have 50% chance of buying the wrong part). And they call them "device net" cables when really they are just adapters. Alas, none of these things makes me love raymarine

 

[Nick_H]

It's quite a challenge trying to understand all their terminology.

You can say that again.

I considered an upgrade last year as one of my existing plotters was on the blink, but eventually concluded that it's beyond most DIY'ers (and certainly beyond me) due to the complexity of different network standards, cables, connectors, multiplexers, adapters etc. The cost of a pro install was the final straw on top of the cost of the units and all the aforementioned cables and connectors, so I had the old unit repaired instead.

 

[aquapower]

Oh yes I appreciate that raymarine will sell you adapters to convert their gear to industry standard gear, at £50 a pop or whatever, to add to the premium you already paid for their stng cables compared with n2k cables. And they will confuse you with gender descriptions when ordering them, a problem that doesn't occur when you buy any normal n2k drop cable ( with device net, you have to figure out whether male/ female describes the contact pins or the threaded parts of the connector body, so u have 50% chance of buying the wrong part). And they call them "device net" cables when really they are just adapters. Alas, none of these things makes me love raymarine

I know where your coming from, the cost of the leads is ridiculous, when you price up the units you can easily add £500+ in leads etc. also the 50% chance of getting wrong device net lead as found out the hard way first time.
After doing several thousand miles with Raymarine kit I have tried Garmin but couldn't get on with it, main reason is the auto pilot for reasons already mentioned here, maybe with time I may get to like it.

 

[jfm]

You can say that again.

I considered an upgrade last year as one of my existing plotters was on the blink, but eventually concluded that it's beyond most DIY'ers (and certainly beyond me) due to the complexity of different network standards, cables, connectors, multiplexers, adapters etc. The cost of a pro install was the final straw on top of the cost of the units and all the aforementioned cables and connectors, so I had the old unit repaired instead.

I see what you're saying Nick, but the thing is that Raymarine just create confusion with their terminology. These days if you do a big install you only need the following cabling:

12/24v power obviously to the big items like MFD and radar (but not the little items like 110m sq screens)
12v power to the N2k backbone
You link some of the machines (MFD, radar, sonar and a few others) with Cat 5 cable
You link pretty much everything with N2k cables (everything is spurred using T connectors off a single continuous backbone)

Occasionally you might run a couple of nmea0183 wires here and there, but hardly any

And that's it. The rest is Raymarine jargon

 

[jfm]

...add £500+ in leads etc.

And the rest! I have 36 things tee'd off my backbone (with 2x matched power supply because of too much LEN)

 

[john_q]

. Raymarine's strategy of taking an industry standard then mucking about with it and forcing use of their connectors is a big part of why I abandoned them and went to Garmin, and I suspect others have done likewise over the years.

+1

The (at the time) Big IT hardware companies tried this approach 20 odd years ago and it did not work, where are they now?