Rathlin to Campbeltown, tidally tricky

AngusMcDoon

AngusMcDoon

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Now here's a tidally tricky passage, as title. There are whirlygigs, serious whooshings & sea pigs at either end, & a serious amount of sideness direction all the way across, then more tide directly with or against up to Campbeltown Loch.

There doesn't seem to be a perfect time to leave to avoid nastiness somewhere, but I think I'd prefer to have it calm in Rathlin Sound as that can't be avoided whereas the race off Kintyre can by giving it a wide berth.

So plan is to leave Rathlin to be off Fair Head at HW Dover -5, accept that I'm going to be wooshed sideways in Sassenach direction, but that will take me well away from MoK, & then have to fight my way north. Anyone got a better idea, apart from leave from somewhere else?
 
Like you said, the Irish answer is to start from somewhere else. (I never understood why Glenarm is regarded by so many as the step off for Campbeltown or Gigha when you have such excellent tidal assist from further South.)
But for your trip you will be crossing the N Channel tides almost at right angles and the traffic separation zone obliquely but I would not worry too much about the latter it is rare to see more than one ship. You steer for the derelict white hotel at Southend, (well east of the Mull tides) which you can usually see from Co. Antrim and time it to ensure you have a nice swoosh up Sanda Sound and on to Davaar on the flood.
Last time we did it in the reverse direction it took 4 hrs 50 mins we had about 2 kts of tidal assist all the way to Fair Head, 3 kts.in Sanda sound, leaving C,town 1/2 hr. after HW Dover, so contrary to above the N. Channel tides are effective, while in Rathlin Sound they were foul.
 
I recall there is a tidal 'contrary' flow close inshore to the MoK - inside the 20m contour - which local cruisers and SIPR competitors understand and use. perhaps a query on the relevant 'Blue Moment' forum will elicit a detailed answer.
 
I don't know if they have updated it, but the old CCC advice (hardbacks and first few iterations of the paperbacks at least) on tides round the Mull of Kintyre was complete nonsense, with timings differing by several hours from (a) the Admiralty Pilot and (b) reality. I forgot this two years ago and was caught by a nasty south-going tide in the Sound of Sanda two flipping hours after the CCC said it should be going north,

Campbeltown Sailing Club have a very handy page on rounding the Mull and crossing to Ireland, which I think is probably the most accurate around. It's at http://www.campbeltownsc.co.uk/rounding-the-mull-of-kintyre-or-heading-for-n-ireland/
 
zoidberg said:
I recall there is a tidal 'contrary' flow close inshore to the MoK - inside the 20m contour - which local cruisers and SIPR competitors understand and use. perhaps a query on the relevant 'Blue Moment' forum will elicit a detailed answer.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a contrary tide - happy to be corrected on that - but it's true that if you stay scarily close to the shore there is a nice calm strip. It's separated from the race by a very clearly defined line of breakers; there are times when you want to be either 20m from the shore ("scarily close") or a couple of miles off. First time I went round was in a 21' Westerly Jouster, powered by a Seagull 40. in a flat calm with a big swell coming in. The inshore route worked well, ina character-forming sort of way ...
 
There is a "contrary" flow for about an hour either side of the main tidal flow change of direction.
In other words, for an hour before the westbound flow starts, there's a back eddy in close westwards, while further off the flow is eastwards. (and vice versa). I've used this many times, and often plant my passage to use it.
I am normally going to (or coming from) Pladda Arran, and I allow about 3.5 to 4 hours to Sanda, aiming to get to Sanda sound at HW Dover. Visit My Harbour has useful tidal flow charts here.. http://www.visitmyharbour.com/articles/3168/hourly-tidal-streams-around-the-firth-of-clyde
There's also one for Rathlin island.
I'd leave Rathlin about HWD+6 for eastbound direction, aim for Macrihanish, end up south of Sanda and get the tide round Pattersons Rock and north to Cambeltown.
I don't think the CCC directions are wrong in the guidance of rounding the Mull. The directions are corrected every year (website) and re-issued every few years in a total revamp. The latest Clyde one came out this spring.
 
MM5AHO said:
I don't think the CCC directions are wrong in the guidance of rounding the Mull. The directions are corrected every year (website) and re-issued every few years in a total revamp. The latest Clyde one came out this spring.
Click to expand...

They've probably updated them, then. I think the error in the old ones may have been converting between Dover, Oban and Greenock tide times. I'll re-check next time I'm on the boat.
 
MM5AHO said:
There is a "contrary" flow for about an hour either side of the main tidal flow change of direction.
In other words, for an hour before the westbound flow starts, there's a back eddy in close westwards, while further off the flow is eastwards. (and vice versa). I've used this many times, and often plant my passage to use it.
I am normally going to (or coming from) Pladda Arran, and I allow about 3.5 to 4 hours to Sanda, aiming to get to Sanda sound at HW Dover. Visit My Harbour has useful tidal flow charts here.. http://www.visitmyharbour.com/articles/3168/hourly-tidal-streams-around-the-firth-of-clyde
There's also one for Rathlin island.
I'd leave Rathlin about HWD+6 for eastbound direction, aim for Macrihanish, end up south of Sanda and get the tide round Pattersons Rock and north to Cambeltown.
I don't think the CCC directions are wrong in the guidance of rounding the Mull. The directions are corrected every year (website) and re-issued every few years in a total revamp. The latest Clyde one came out this spring.
Click to expand...

That's roughly what I was thinking, maybe an hour earlier as HWD-6 & HWD+6 are about the same. Both are shown as slack in Rathlin Sound which is probably where I need the slack to be on the passage. The fog is back though, & if like today, by the time it clears it's too late to leave.
 
While you're there... Is there now no room to anchor west of the pontoons and harbour, but inside the North Breakwater (the outer one to W )?
I'm going to be there next week, and hope to anchor overnight expecting the pontoons to be full. Someone said there's a new jetty of a new ferry ramp or something? Has that anchorage been consumed?
 
Watching this thread with interest as I'm also planning a Campbelltown to Rathlin or Ballycastle (to Derry) return trip in July.

I crossed from Bangor to Campbelltown two weeks ago. We arrived at about 20h00 on a Saturday night and the very helpful harbour man was there to greet and direct us and take our lines. There was still room on the pontoons for more boats to berth. Very good value for money, the best of our week long trip from North Wales to The Clyde.

Our crossing from Bangor had F4 gusting F6 on the stern. My boat will not run so we gybed across. I last did the trip in 2014 from Belfast City in absolutely millpond conditions. This recent trip was 10 miles longer but 30 minutes quicker. At one point the instruments showed just over 12 kts over ground as she surfed down the waves. It was a bit lumpy but the boat loved it.
 
All the advice about rounding the Mull is not really relevant to this query, if the OP is going to Campbeltown he should be miles clear of it.
Has the Campbeltown Boat Club advice on the route to N.I. been corrected yet, or are they still sending boats through Sanda Sound to get to Bangor?
 
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Quandary said:
All the advice about rounding the Mull is not really relevant to this query, if the OP is going to Campbeltown he should be miles clear of it.
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Tide times are all linked, though.

Has the Campbeltown Boat Club advice on the route to N.I. been corrected yet, or are they still sending boats through Sanda Sound to get to Bangor?
Click to expand...

It's currently "If departing Campbeltown for Bangor or Glenarm, leave Campbeltown at least two hours before Low Water and, on clearing Sanda, set course for destination. Bon Voyage."
 
Just to be contrary...,,,,

We are coming north and hope to leave Glenarm for Gigha on Monday

Any suggestions as to the best time to depart Glenarm would be most welcome

(Having just battled tides, poor vis and no wind all the way from the Solent my brain is getting a bit tired. Presently sitting in a misty windless gloom in Dun Laoghaire Harbour )

Thanks
 
We are coming north and hope to leave Glenarm for Gigha on Monday

Any suggestions as to the best time to depart Glenarm would be most welcome

Thanks[/QUOTE

I would probably leave about an hour or so before high water. Should be slack in the bay or even with you slightly. By the time you reach the first headland tide should be turning north out in the channel and you take tide all the way to Gigha. As you get further across and closer to the MoK allow for a good bit of westerly shove from the tide. I would aim to pass the SE corner of the seperation zone which is about 2 miles of the Mull. That will keep you out of the zone and clear of any jostle closer inshore.

Looks like a motoring day at the moment. Going other way from Ardrossan probably to Portpatrick.
 
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JumbleDuck said:
I don't think it's a contrary tide - happy to be corrected on that - but it's true that if you stay scarily close to the shore there is a nice calm strip. It's separated from the race by a very clearly defined line of breakers; there are times when you want to be either 20m from the shore ("scarily close") or a couple of miles off. First time I went round was in a 21' Westerly Jouster, powered by a Seagull 40. in a flat calm with a big swell coming in. The inshore route worked well, ina character-forming sort of way ...
Click to expand...
From what I remember it does turn about an 1 hour before the main flow gets going but that's close in right and the lighthouse and just north of it
That contrary tide and staying extremely close to shore won't affect you coming or going to Rathlin. Only if going round the mull and heading or coming from north such as Islay or Gigha would you need to worry about that. I wouldn't worry about leaving Rathlin or the crossing but would be more inclined to ensure favourable tide through Sandra sound and on to Campbeltown. Arriving at or just before the mull at low water slack would be my choice. You shouldn't be anywhere near Fairhead either.
 
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Spyro said:
From what I remember it does turn about an 1 hour before the main flow gets going but that's close in right and the lighthouse and just north of it
That contrary tide and staying extremely close to shore won't affect you coming or going to Rathlin.
Click to expand...

You are quite right. I should have made clear that the scarily close inshore route only applies round the Mull itself.
 
MM5AHO said:
While you're there... Is there now no room to anchor west of the pontoons and harbour, but inside the North Breakwater (the outer one to W )?
I'm going to be there next week, and hope to anchor overnight expecting the pontoons to be full. Someone said there's a new jetty of a new ferry ramp or something? Has that anchorage been consumed?
Click to expand...

There is a new ferry berth & a bigger ferry. I have seen a boat anchored there but I think that area is best left to the ferries for their manoeuvring.
 
Solwaycruiser said:
We are coming north and hope to leave Glenarm for Gigha on Monday

Any suggestions as to the best time to depart Glenarm would be most welcome

Thanks[/QUOTE

I would probably leave about an hour or so before high water. Should be slack in the bay or even with you slightly. By the time you reach the first headland tide should be turning north out in the channel and you take tide all the way to Gigha. As you get further across and closer to the MoK allow for a good bit of westerly shove from the tide. I would aim to pass the SE corner of the seperation zone which is about 2 miles of the Mull. That will keep you out of the zone and clear of any jostle closer inshore.

Looks like a motoring day at the moment. Going other way from Ardrossan probably to Portpatrick.
Click to expand...

Thanks

A poor vis motoring day and probably night for us too out of Dublin to Glenarm
 
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