Ratchet cheek block to hold jib sheet - would it work?

[mrming]

We have a small but fairly powerful 23 footer which we race on the East coast.

The boat heels hard after the tack until we get settled with everyone on the rail, so we've taken to cross winching, using the leeward sheet winch as a turning point to the windward coachroof winch.

Now that's fine, except there are some controls I like to adjust which use the coachroof winches - things like the outhaul, and the main and genny halyards. Upwind the jib sheet is cleated using the self tailer, putting that winch out of action until we tack.

I've tried asking the trimmer to just use the sheet winches, but they don't like it because the shape of the boat means you get a very close up view of the water from down there. Having tried it myself I sympathise.

So any suggestions for what I can do? I'd like to find a way of clearing the coachroof winch after the tack, but obviously taking it off is going to let the sheet slip out.

I've thought about employing a ratchet cheek block to turn the sheet before it heads up to the coachroof winch.

Something like this:
http://www.harken.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?id=4860&taxid=420

The idea being that you could then unload the winch without the sheet slipping, and drop the sheet into a cam cleat on the leeward coaming.

Would it work?
Would it cause too much friction when the lazy sheet runs?

Any thoughts or alternative suggestions gratefully received!

 

[flaming]

Can you not put a block in to allow you to take it to the windward sheet jib winch? (Normally called a primary, with the coachroof winches the secondaries)

 

[bbg]

Can you not put a block in to allow you to take it to the windward sheet jib winch? (Normally called a primary, with the coachroof winches the secondaries)

Yep, that is absolutely standard on a lot of boats - cross-sheeting. Did it all the time on J-24s.

Edit - you might, as flaming says, need to add a turning block. A block shackled to the toerail (if you have one) just aft of the primaries would work.

 

[lpdsn]

Something like this:
http://www.harken.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?id=4860&taxid=420

The idea being that you could then unload the winch without the sheet slipping, and drop the sheet into a cam cleat on the leeward coaming.

Would it work?
Would it cause too much friction when the lazy sheet runs?

I can't see how it would hold it. It's designed to make life slightly easier for a spinnaker trimmer, but even then the sheet will run out OK except in light airs. Jib sheets are under far heavy loads than spinny sheets.

The jib sheets would run out, but the extra friction would be a problem when you're hauling in the other sheet.

 

[lw395]

A ratchet block will have a multiply effect depending on the angle the sheet is wrapped around it. It may have as much as 10:1 holding ratio.
But surely what the OP wants is a jamming block?
They used to be quite common, a turning block with a locking cam on a lever?

 

[mrming]

flaming / bbg - there's a further complication here. At some point in the boat's life, someone swapped the primaries (Lewmar 16STs) and the secondaries (some barely adequate 6s) around. So the good winches are up on the coachroof. One solution would be to replace the small primaries with bigger winches, but that's very pricey and I'd rather spend the money on sails.

lw395 - I did some more googling and it turns out what you're talking about is also sometimes called a footblock. This one looks like it would do the job:

http://www.bluemarinestore.com/lewmar-synchro-jamming-footblock/

 

[Ingwe]

On J24's I have seen them use these - http://www.harken.co.uk/productdetail.aspx?id=4742&taxid=421 as a turning block (I can't remember off the top of my head if it needs to be just in front or behind the primaries) the idea being the trimmer pulls the sheet on 95% cleats off and then winches in the last 5%. If it is set up correctly when you take the load up on the winch it will pull the line out of the cam so you don't have to release it prior to tacking / can still ease from on the rail - but you obviously have to get the angles right to do this.

 

[Mrnotming]

Hi MrMing,
These foot blocks work well as advertised, I have them on my boat!
What about attaching the beginning of the jib sheet to the car, leading it through the jib cringle, then back again through the car, and thence to the winch as usual. As the jib sheet is doubled, the mechanical advantage is there for the small primaries, and sheets a size smaller could be used due to the doubling.I would not like to see a block on the jib clew though, they are lethal enough with the cringle alone? The sharp angle through the jib cringle might cripple the sheet, don't know!
( It'll never work, somebody come along and tell me why?)

 

[bbg]

Hi MrMing,
These foot blocks work well as advertised, I have them on my boat!
What about attaching the beginning of the jib sheet to the car, leading it through the jib cringle, then back again through the car, and thence to the winch as usual. As the jib sheet is doubled, the mechanical advantage is there for the small primaries, and sheets a size smaller could be used due to the doubling.I would not like to see a block on the jib clew though, they are lethal enough with the cringle alone? The sharp angle through the jib cringle might cripple the sheet, don't know!
( It'll never work, somebody come along and tell me why?)

A LOT of extra friction and need to double the length of the sheet. It would not make for fast tacks.

On a 23 footer the OP should not need very large "primaries" for the jib. Or swap them back so the big ones are for the jib and the smaller ones are up top?

 

[duckhead]

I'm curious, what is the boat?
A turning block is what you need, it could be a block on a padeye or a fixed cheek block, ratchet would help boost the light winches
BUT
think carefully about the positioning, otherwise you will lose the option of not cross sheeting without re feeding the sheet
Lest we forget sometimes bottom mark roundings don't always go as smoothly as we'd hope!

 

[DFL1010]

flaming / bbg - there's a further complication here. At some point in the boat's life, someone swapped the primaries (Lewmar 16STs) and the secondaries (some barely adequate 6s) around. So the good winches are up on the coachroof. One solution would be to replace the small primaries with bigger winches, but that's very pricey and I'd rather spend the money on sails.

Can't you just swap them back?

 

[bbg]

Can't you just swap them back?

Good idea. I wish I'd suggested that.

 

[mrming]

Good idea. I wish I'd suggested that.

Ideally I'd buy two more of the bigger winches. Trouble is two winches = one headsail. Not a good use of boat tokens!

 

[DFL1010]

Good idea. I wish I'd suggested that.

My, aren't we passive-aggressive this evening?

 

[bbg]

My, aren't we passive-aggressive this evening?

No offense intended ...

 

[Judders]

Sounds like basically it's time to trade up to an Impala.

DT realised the problem and designed this very solution into the boat.

 

[Judders]

https://youtu.be/5QPaNQDiSVs

 

[mrming]

Sounds like basically it's time to trade up to an Impala.

DT realised the problem and designed this very solution into the boat.

I sailed a mate's Impala for many years. Great boat - all of our houses are still groaning under the weight of the trophies.

 

[Keen_Ed]

How about Lopez block set up, like on j24s? Ratchamatic with a camcleat. Bang the sheet home on the cleat. Fine trim with the winch, set up so the sheet comes out of the cleat when tension comes on.

http://www.apsltd.com/j24-lopez-block-kit.html
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=120416

 

[mrming]

How about Lopez block set up, like on j24s? Ratchamatic with a camcleat. Bang the sheet home on the cleat. Fine trim with the winch, set up so the sheet comes out of the cleat when tension comes on.

http://www.apsltd.com/j24-lopez-block-kit.html
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=120416

That looks clever - thanks!