Resolution
Well-known member
Brilliant! A wonderful reminder of days gone by racing Impalas in Hong Kong. Mind you, we were usually only four up, so lots more room to move.
Ratchet cheek block to hold jib sheet - would it work?
- Thread starter mrming
- Start date
Brilliant! A wonderful reminder of days gone by racing Impalas in Hong Kong. Mind you, we were usually only four up, so lots more room to move.
Racecruiser
Member
Nice video Judders!
Judders
Active member
Sadly it's some time ago now. Penultimate race of the 2013 Nationals. I think we finished second or third and came fourth in the regatta. We do everything better now and don't get anything like as good results!
Anyway, that's not the point. Nor do I really thing MrMing should throw the baby out with the bathwater and but s new boat after all the work he has put in with this one, but there's an example of how cross sheet winching can work well.
Anyway, that's not the point. Nor do I really thing MrMing should throw the baby out with the bathwater and but s new boat after all the work he has put in with this one, but there's an example of how cross sheet winching can work well.
bbg
Active member
As I understand it, that is what the OP is doing now, and wants to avoid. He doesn't want to take the jib sheets to the cabin top. I had in mind something like this:
This is cross-sheeting to the opposite primary. Although the J-24 doesn't have secondaries on the cabin-top, this approach should still work, leaving the secondaries free. The OP's other problem is that his "primaries" are too small, so he needs to switch them back to the cockpit.
Of course it is possible that one of his current set of winches is too small. In that case he will have to bite the bullet and upgrade one set to something larger.
Judders
Active member
Yes, it's important to note the difference in that our primary winches are on the coachroof by design so it would not be quite the same on the Benny.
When Sarah (the trimmer in the video) and I sail on the Corby 35, we also cross winch across the cockpit but again, John laid the deck out in such a way as that worked.
When Sarah (the trimmer in the video) and I sail on the Corby 35, we also cross winch across the cockpit but again, John laid the deck out in such a way as that worked.
mrming
Well-known member
This isn't our boat, but here are a couple of pics just so you can see the layout and how it differs from the J-24:
The boat is wide at the back and has the winches very far outboard. We also have quite high coamings which don't really have anywhere to mount anything (apart from the moulded winch pedestal).
Note how far forward the genoa track is compared to the J/24. I'd say it's questionable whether we'd be able to make the angle work for the Lopez block placed directly on the jib car.
How about a cam cleat mounted on a riser block behind each primary winch? Trimmer pulls in with one turn as far as they can and then cleats. They then take the tail up to the windward primary and load it up. Perhaps we could work the heights out so the sheet then pops out of the cam on the leeward side as it's loaded up. Similar principle to the Lopez but different arrangement.
The boat is wide at the back and has the winches very far outboard. We also have quite high coamings which don't really have anywhere to mount anything (apart from the moulded winch pedestal).
Note how far forward the genoa track is compared to the J/24. I'd say it's questionable whether we'd be able to make the angle work for the Lopez block placed directly on the jib car.
How about a cam cleat mounted on a riser block behind each primary winch? Trimmer pulls in with one turn as far as they can and then cleats. They then take the tail up to the windward primary and load it up. Perhaps we could work the heights out so the sheet then pops out of the cam on the leeward side as it's loaded up. Similar principle to the Lopez but different arrangement.
Judders
Active member
Hmmm, in between writing nasty letters to former clients, I've been looking at those photos and pondering this afternoon.
My first thought was a riser behind the primary with a turning block on the top of it, meaning that the sheet could be led to either winch depending on the circumstances. However your lockers are then in the way. The same outcome could be achieved with a riser and turning block in front of your primaries. That'd give you the option to cross-sheet or not.
HOWEVER... it then occurred to me that we might be asking the wrong questions. What size headsail are you using? On the basis that you're happy with your spinnaker and have a reacher in the locker, why not rate for a blade jib only, spank IRC, point higher and have a much easier load to sheet in... but that's for another thread.
My first thought was a riser behind the primary with a turning block on the top of it, meaning that the sheet could be led to either winch depending on the circumstances. However your lockers are then in the way. The same outcome could be achieved with a riser and turning block in front of your primaries. That'd give you the option to cross-sheet or not.
HOWEVER... it then occurred to me that we might be asking the wrong questions. What size headsail are you using? On the basis that you're happy with your spinnaker and have a reacher in the locker, why not rate for a blade jib only, spank IRC, point higher and have a much easier load to sheet in... but that's for another thread.
mrming
Well-known member
We've actually been through this process already. When we got the boat we felt it was tender and would be okay with just a blade. We got rated for that at 0.853 with a short sprit and an a-sail.
Since we've got to know the boat better we've realised it can carry a lot more canvas and it really goes with the number one in higher winds. We've also realised the a-sail is pointless in our sailing area.
So now we're rated 0.860 with the #1 and just the conventional kite with a standard pole. We race in a tidal river and quite often we end up doing a million tacks to stay in the shallows out of the current - hence streamlining the tacks with the big headsail has become a priority for next season.
bbg
Active member
I see the problem with the geometry. I might be tempted to try some kind of a flying block, tethered to the toerail maybe three or four holes aft of the stanchion. You would have to experiment to get it tethered to the right place and the right length of tether, but it just might give a fair lead to the windward sheet. You might also get away with using an Antal low friction ring instead of a block. Tricky one.
Edit - possibly with some bungee cord to the top of the stanchion to hold it off the deck when it is on the windward side, or maybe some bungee cord taken forward a few holes in the toerail to keep it on the deck.
Edit - possibly with some bungee cord to the top of the stanchion to hold it off the deck when it is on the windward side, or maybe some bungee cord taken forward a few holes in the toerail to keep it on the deck.
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bbg
Active member
OK, as I've thought more about it, if you were going to try a block / low friction ring on a tether, it would be better to have it tethered to two places on the toerail.
One aft, about three or four holes aft of the stanchion. This tether would take the load of the turning force. A second tether, which could be lighter, would be directly outboard of the flying turning block, to prevent it from moving too far inboard as the pressure comes on.
I'm not convinced it would work, though. The geometry is such that the sheet might still rub over the leeward coaming. As I look at it more, I am almost certain of it. That leaves the option of building up the winch base to permit the installation of a block there.
In either case, cross-sheeting might require the adjustment of the angle of the winches themselves. They work within a band of angles of the line coming into the winch.
One aft, about three or four holes aft of the stanchion. This tether would take the load of the turning force. A second tether, which could be lighter, would be directly outboard of the flying turning block, to prevent it from moving too far inboard as the pressure comes on.
I'm not convinced it would work, though. The geometry is such that the sheet might still rub over the leeward coaming. As I look at it more, I am almost certain of it. That leaves the option of building up the winch base to permit the installation of a block there.
In either case, cross-sheeting might require the adjustment of the angle of the winches themselves. They work within a band of angles of the line coming into the winch.
Judders
Active member
At least you can try tethering to the toerail first and see if it does work without putting any holes in the boat.
mrming
Well-known member
Thanks BBG and Judders for putting lots of thought into this.
Next steps:
1) Check that the winch angle is okay in principle for cross winching to the winward winch.
2) Play around with a block and some lines to see if the tethered block idea will work.
3) If not, consider just cross-winching through a cam cleat mounted just inboard of each winch.
There's also the question of whether I swap the winches back, or bite the bullet and upgrade two of them.
I'll report back any further progress.
Next steps:
1) Check that the winch angle is okay in principle for cross winching to the winward winch.
2) Play around with a block and some lines to see if the tethered block idea will work.
3) If not, consider just cross-winching through a cam cleat mounted just inboard of each winch.
There's also the question of whether I swap the winches back, or bite the bullet and upgrade two of them.
I'll report back any further progress.