Rafting without landlines

Wansworth said:
Moored up in Cowes by the sailing school on the eve of the round the island…..about six racers hanging on my aft mooring cleat on my little Mashford…..luckily I had just refitted the boat and my cleats and deck were good and strong as my plea to the boy racers to put out lines to the piles fell on deaf ears…….until I threatened to cut their lines as the ebb gathered speed😂…….and the beer flowed
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Was very near you and wonder if you're jazzing up the story a bit. As you say it was 6 boats out and plenty of tide. "Lavery's Law" applied and shorelines were widely used AFAICT without much need to asking.
 
Mark-1 said:
Was very near you and wonder if you're jazzing up the story a bit. As you say it was 6 boats out and plenty of tide. "Lavery's Law" applied and shorelines were widely used AFAICT without much need to asking.
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A story being exaggerated for effect on the forum? Especially one that paints "racers" in a negative light?

I'm shocked I tell you, shocked....
 
When we lived in Belgium, we kept our boat in the Netherlands, in the Oosterschelde. There are many harbours and marinas in the delightful and picturesque old towns and rafting up six or more boats abreast against a pontoon or harbour wall is fairly normal. The habourmasters go to a lot of trouble to keep boats of similar size together. The use of shore lines in a rafting situation is almost universal and very necessary if you are in a tidal or river flow. The outer boats should not over-tension their dock lines, but should ensure that in the event that the stack of boats starts to rotate around the inside one, they become tight and take the strain very quickly. It is very easy to judge this, I find and if you are on the outside, with another raft of boats a metre or so behind your transom, you will be very glad that you put a line ashore. And as has been noted elsewhere, laggards are generally politely but firmly encouraged to get their lines ashore pdq!
 
Fossil said:
The outer boats should not over-tension their dock lines, but should ensure that in the event that the stack of boats starts to rotate around the inside one, they become tight and take the strain very quickly
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In the real world though, there's another stack of boats a metre in either direction, meaning the shore lines are no more effective in this situation than the breast lines, being all at around 90 degrees to the boat and shore.

Granted, in the fairytale world of RYA books, the lines will run at a diagonal to the other cleats on the pontoon. Those cleats that are always spaced at 1-2m intervals in the RYA magical kingdom, and don't have other boats tied to them :ROFLMAO:
 
lustyd said:
In the real world though, there's another stack of boats a metre in either direction, meaning the shore lines are no more effective in this situation than the breast lines, being all at around 90 degrees to the boat and shore.
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except that the boats down stream are also affected in the same way, maintaining the relative separation. It’s only this thread that has got me to stop and think it through. I’ve always taken it for granted as working, despite it looking all wrong. Generations of harbourmasters have used this method. I remember the east harbour at Scarborough looking like a snakes wedding but it worked
 
lustyd said:
In the real world though, there's another stack of boats a metre in either direction, meaning the shore lines are no more effective in this situation than the breast lines, being all at around 90 degrees to the boat and shore.

Granted, in the fairytale world of RYA books, the lines will run at a diagonal to the other cleats on the pontoon. Those cleats that are always spaced at 1-2m intervals in the RYA magical kingdom, and don't have other boats tied to them :ROFLMAO:
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People do their best and come up with Heath Robinson arrangements to deal with lack of cleats and adjacent boats. So common sense is prevailing. Not least because the inside boats are highly motivated to ensure effective shore lines. 20 degrees is better than nothing and you can usually do better than that.
 
boomerangben said:
except that the boats down stream are also affected in the same way, maintaining the relative separation.
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A rope with no leverage isn't going to fix it though. You'd be better off tying to the stern of the boat in front from a physics standpoint.
 
Mark-1 said:
20 degrees is better than nothing and you can usually do better than that.
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I've literally never seen 20 degrees on shorelines in a raft. That would be exceptionally wide at the pontoon end. With standard AWBs at 20 degrees you'd need 4.5m at the pontoon by the third boat, that's halfway along the boat next door!
 
lustyd said:
I've literally never seen 20 degrees on shorelines in a raft. That would be exceptionally wide at the pontoon end. With standard AWBs at 20 degrees you'd need 4.5m at the pontoon by the third boat, that's halfway along the boat next door!
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I've done the trig. (My brain exploded.)

Assuming 6 boats of 3m beam 20 degrees would mean you'd need 6m for the outer boat. Yeah, you're right you don't get that.
 
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All that is needed with multiple rafts is for the outside boats to be connected bow-to-stern and for the first and last outside boat to have long shore lines at an appropriate angle.

Until someone wants to leave of course.
 
johnalison said:
All that is needed with multiple rafts is for the outside boats to be connected bow-to-stern and for the first and last outside boat to have long shore lines at an appropriate angle.

Until someone wants to leave of course.
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That's great until the boat at the end is level with the end of the pontoon.
 
Perhaps with the proliferation of marina berths, there is not much use now for traditional seamanship, such as rafting. I'm lucky to have been taught how to do it properly and used it a lot. Including leaving from a berth in the middle. But many tides ago...

I think the biggest raft I was in was during a racing weekend on the Clyde. Tarbert, before they put pontoons in. 12 deep. The socials were legend. The shorelines.....not. but all around the Solent and close by it was normal to be 3 or 4 deep on places like Poole or Lymington Town Quays on a Saturday.

That training was useful when on reception docks in other places like the Azores as it seemed like only Brits knew how to do it properly.

However, for all that, not needed to raft myself for loooong time.
 
capnsensible said:
Perhaps with the proliferation of marina berths, there is not much use now for traditional seamanship, such as rafting. I'm lucky to have been taught how to do it properly and used it a lot. Including leaving from a berth in the middle. But many tides ago...

I think the biggest raft I was in was during a racing weekend on the Clyde. Tarbert, before they put pontoons in. 12 deep. The socials were legend. The shorelines.....not. but all around the Solent and close by it was normal to be 3 or 4 deep on places like Poole or Lymington Town Quays on a Saturday.

That training was useful when on reception docks in other places like the Azores as it seemed like only Brits knew how to do it properly.

However, for all that, not needed to raft myself for loooong time.
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Yes had to ensure masts didn’t coincide,and little boat and biggies separated
 
Rafting is pretty much the norm for any away regatta. So we do a lot of it. Dartmouth sees the biggest rafts, but as they're at the end of a marina aisle shorelines are easy as they're just run to the finger pontoon behind you and the rafts then joined together.

With modern racing boats having chainplates pretty much at max beam, and full width spreaders, one thing you learn bloody quickly is that you have to counter the crew's natural tendancy to gather on the side of the boat that you are going to come alongside to help. 2 crews doing that and you will clash rigs. You need to gather everyone not actively engaged in handling a rope and make them stand on the other side of the boat!
 
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