Rafting Up

[Sailfree]

Post on another thread has made me question how I raft up.

Poster insists that he has the right to cut the ropes of anyone rafting up without his permision and implied that lines from rafting boats should only be lead ashore.

Sailing in the crowded Solent I have always accepted the need for rafting up and when I have been instructed to do so by a harbour master I have put bow and stern lines and springs on to the adjacent boat and then finally lead bow & stern lines ashore. Due to the close proximity of boats fore and aft and the resultant angle of these lines they are best considered breast lines and not springs.

Am I doing it wrong?

I would add that knowing some of the crew I have taken out on occassions I think cutting others lines could be a serious risk to his health but I suspect he was saying that tongue in cheek.

 

[Judders]

Doesn't sound like there is anything wrong in what you say you are doing but there are details that require clarification. Only use cleats and use as little cleat as possible (i.e. bowline not OXOs). The spare line goes to your boat not your neighbour. And shore lines are obligatory unless all the inside boats say otherwise.

I wasn't on my own boat when a pillock of a sea-school 'instructor' encouraged them to use the pushpit of the boat I was on (in Yarmouth ironically enough) to put the slip line around. That was entirely unacceptable. If you used anything other than the cleats to raft to my boat then you would get an earful and about a minutes notice before they were removed. If they were tied on in such a way that they could not be removed without cutting then they would be cut.

 

[Wandering Star]

With ONLY shore lines your boat is going to surge back and forth which is far more likely to damage the dipsticks boat than allowing you to cleat up to his boat in a seamanlike manner.

I don't know what the legal position is if he severed your lines but being totally pedantic (is that the right word) severing the lines would infer a couple of feet of your lines were still attached to his boat making him guilty of theft too as well as all the all the other legal phrases used in the other thread, generally focussing on "malicious intent", all of which I would I hope would be enforceable.

FWIW, I think the OP who threatened to sever the lines in Snooks thread was just a Troll come out from under his bridge. I thought it was quite a good troll actually!

Just my 2p worth.

 

[Boomshanka]

If they were tied on in such a way that they could not be removed without cutting then they would be cut.

What is all this business about cutting lines and the agressive tone to some of these posts here and the previous thread? Surely, sailing is still a gentleman's (and lady's) pastime... perhaps a thought for the times when we were all beginners and a little humour and passing on of hard learnt lessons and seamanship wouldn't go a miss? Unbelievable (and somewhat depressing), really.

 

[curve]

No-one would ever cut somebody's line when rafting up they simply come on here and moan about it.

 

[pteron]

Poster insists that he has the right to cut the ropes of anyone rafting up without his permision and implied that lines from rafting boats should only be lead ashore.

I've always understood it to be either:
1. you raft up with permission or
2. The harbourmaster has told you to raft up.

In the latter case, no permission required. (Though I usually ask anyway).

Re lines only ashore? He's having you on!

 

[Judders]

...a little humour and passing on of hard learnt lessons and seamanship...

Well I did say they would get a minutes notice.

 

[Boomshanka]

Well I did say they would get a minutes notice.

Steady on Judders, you don't want to overdo the generosity quota

 

[sea]

What is all this business about cutting lines and the agressive tone to some of these posts here and the previous thread? Surely, sailing is still a gentleman's (and lady's) pastime... perhaps a thought for the times when we were all beginners and a little humour and passing on of hard learnt lessons and seamanship wouldn't go a miss? Unbelievable (and somewhat depressing), really.

I totally agree with the above, its sad people are like this these days. Yes its important to be curtious to your neighbour, but rafting has to be done. If anyone cut my lines there would be severe trouble. OXO's or not.

I like the fact that (mostly) the yachting community is friendly and ready to help. Its people that have a problem with life that cause the problems.

I dont have any set method apart from take your shoes off, and if its late, be as quiet as you can. Other than that i suggest some of the less friendly neighbours take a trip to Yarmouth!

 

[Judders]

Steady on Judders, you don't want to overdo the generosity quota

Seriously though, my boat is fairly delicate and I am unfairly anal, so I would not be very happy about someone using my pushpit or shrouds. (I've seen both done this year). Chain plates we'll talk about and you can use the toerail but it will cut your lines in hours!

In my experience there are three sorts of people who get shirty about rafting. Firstly, those who just don't like it. Secondly, those who like to be disaproving and condecending about everyone elses seamanship and thirdly, those like me who are just petrified about something else on the boat getting damaged.

Personally, I quite like rafting. Because Feeling Rough is so very light, we usually ask to be on the outside of everything, but generally I would far rather a good raft up at Shepherds than us the Haven (for example). Yes, it can be a place to see some apallingly inconsierate behaivour but it need not be if everyone is considerate.

 

[Judders]

Oh and the one thing I see missed in raft ups time and time again is paying attention to the risk of jousting.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Post on another thread has made me question how I raft up.

Sailing in the crowded Solent I have always accepted the need for rafting up and when I have been instructed to do so by a harbour master I have put bow and stern lines and springs on to the adjacent boat and then finally lead bow & stern lines ashore. Due to the close proximity of boats fore and aft and the resultant angle of these lines they are best considered breast lines and not springs.

.

I can only add 2 points

Raft up - make sure that you are parallel to the next door boat. Hopefully he is parallel to the one inside and so on. The French are particularly bad at this, making it really difficult to get a stable raft.

Once squared up - always take a line ashore bow and stern. If you have no direct sight line ashore to a cleat, discuss with boat inside. I don't actually think that shore lines going in at 90degrees do much in supporting the raft execpt in an offshore wind.

With strong winds from ahead or astern, then you are relying on properly set up springs and brest on all the inside boats, so it is worth checking that you are happy with how they are all moored. And yes - it is your problem if one of them is inadequately moored - so you will need to (very) tackfully suggest he does it better! If room, a head or sternline should go out at 45deg, but we rarely have the room to do this.

In the situation of strong bow or stern winds then the size of the stack must be smaller, and there will come a point where the inside boats will be complaining of undue stress. The outer boats may have to leave to relieve the stress.

 

[Mulge]

Oh and the one thing I see missed in raft ups time and time again is paying attention to the risk of jousting.

Is that the spreaders and more getting tangled when masts line up abreast? Happened to me (my own fault entirely) when I was invited to raft up on a mooring bouy (in the Roads outside Yarmouth, appropriately enough, give where the other thread had its origins). One new masthead light and VHF arial later, I'm now always alert to the risk.

 

[Boat44]

Having spent two weeks in the west country sailing this year and usualy spending time in the solent I would make the following observtion.

The further west you go the more civil/relaxed and friendly people are. (Whilst I don't think the French know what a shore line is and the Ddutch can't deal with tides!!)

The solent just seems to be stuffed with too many people on some sort of mission. Mission to what I have no idea, but it invariably doesn't include good seamanship or basic manners!

Still, best sailing season is fast approaching late September/October. Good steady winds, nobody about!

 

[robind]

Rafting up

Many years ago I was the first person to tie up to a pontoon ( with a Jaguar 25) and during the next hours about five others (30 to 35 foot boats) also rafted up to "us" all with shore lines. During the night a large wooden scooner ( around 65 feet) also rafted up and attached his shore lines to his winches and duly (unbeknown to any of us) winched himself in tight! they left at 06-00 and by the time we came to leave around 10-00 we noticed conciderable cracking to our jaguars hull. I never took it any farther and lived with the damage caused but I do feel that the largest / strongest boat (if poss) should be on the inside, and that shore lines should not be "winched" in too tight? This occured in the yealm on the visitors mooring, some twenty plus years ago.

 

[sea]

Having spent two weeks in the west country sailing this year and usualy spending time in the solent I would make the following observtion.

The further west you go the more civil/relaxed and friendly people are. (Whilst I don't think the French know what a shore line is and the Ddutch can't deal with tides!!)

The solent just seems to be stuffed with too many people on some sort of mission. Mission to what I have no idea, but it invariably doesn't include good seamanship or basic manners!

Still, best sailing season is fast approaching late September/October. Good steady winds, nobody about!

A couple of weeks ago we were battling through the mouth of the solent to hit Yarmouth on our way from Kernow, (your right we are much more agreeable in the west)

As soon as we hit the solent we could not believe how bad it was. It was a busy saturday, but there are no excuses for being inconsiderate. Cut a long story short 3 boats failed even to look behind them as they went for a tack, if i wasnt on the ball we would have hit the first, bang on midships, and it wouldn't have been pretty as we have a colvic and i think we would sail right through a Jenneau.

The thing i hate most is when the incompitent skipper or his eye candy look at you like you were in the wrong, no mate i just stopped you writing your boat off!

Anyway just fancied a rant at the amount of idiotic sailors around this area.

 

[kingfisher]

Bear in mind that in the Netherlands, the Inland Waterways regulations actually state that you have to allow someone to raft up to you.

 

[tobble]

at sabre 27 OA rallies we've adopted a neat trick; when rafting up the rafter and the raftee each lead a spring back from a bow cleat and put it on the winch of the other boat, rather than a stern cleat. this makes it really easy to adjust position to stop 'jousting' and achive the correct tension. of course we use breast lines too.

 

[Judders]

This could, and should, be a whole other thread, but I came accross more rudeness in four days in Torquay than I have all season on Lake Solent.

It was quite unbelievable.

 

[michael_w]

I'll try and raft up bow to stern. Bit more private and helps to stop the rigs getting too close.