Rafting etiquette

Quandary

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I keep my boat on a pontoon in the basin just inside the sea lock at the SE end of the Crinan Canal, it is an annual berth allocated by B.W. Because most of the other boats on the pontoon are motor cruisers, yachts transiting the canal tend to raft up alongside us and when our boat is there I often have two three or more boats rafted outside me. I live about 100 yards away on the canal bank.
A week or two back it was quite stormy with strong S winds and I went down to the sea lock to take lines from a couple of yachts that were having difficulty with the crosswind at the lock entrance. On the way past I noticed that there was one large rather tatty yacht outside mine, it was flying two Cornish flags but at the time I had no prejudice against Cornwall persons.( I don't know the collective word for people from Cornwall) One of the yachts coming in wanted to berth outside him. The single hander on the Cornish boat had a bow and stern line ashore and a very short line from our spring cleat to a cleat on his deck directly opposite about a metre long. this line was jerking and taking the windage of both boats. I asked him if he would lengthen it and rig it forward as a spring. He explained to me that though he was younger than me (and bigger than me) he knew more about boats than I ever would and if my cleat could not take the strain I should have bought a different boat. I explained that I was happy with his shore lines but I thought that if he rigged either springs or bow and stern lines to my boat ( his was about 10' longer) it would be more comfortable and reduce the movement between the hulls. I offered to use a couple of my own stretchy nylon lines. He flew into a rage which I am now advised is a Cornish person characteristic and with many expletives, most of which I recognized, took off the one line he had to my boat and eased his shore lines. His boat was now running up and down alongside mine even more. The third skipper was embarrassed and asked me to help him to rig shore lines which was not really possible because of the relatively long boat alongside. The Cornwall flagged boat lay along side for about a week but the wind dropped so the lateral movement along my topsides was much less. I wanted to put over our fender skirt but did not dare go near again while he was there because another local skipper who talked to him warned me that apparently you don't reason or tangle with people from down there, he said it was a temprament thing, something to do with inbreeding over centuries.
Did I have any rights in this situation, anyone got any suggestions what I could have done?
Is it regarded as unreasonable in the extreme SW to use ropes as springs and attach boats berthed side by side to each other.
Until this happened I was always happy with the Scottish system of bow and stern lines and springs each way to the next boat, supplemented with shore lines if it is windy and practical. I would have regarded the use of springs fore and aft when alongside as essential, bow and stern lines to the next boat are probably adequate if there is a big length differential but I would still rig springs to avoid any risk of straining fender lines or marking hulls. When we go away we use a set of new clean fenders and warps for going alongside other boats as our day to day canal pontoon ones get a bit grubby.
 
Sailing mainly on the Solent, rafting up is something I'm pretty used to and never have I come across this behaviour. Infact I can only admire fearless skippers for taking my lines as SWMBO appeared alongside with a rats nest of lines around her during our first season. It's a shame your "guests" don't share your respect for other boaters
 
I'd have told him that if he wanted to raft up to me he would have to put up with my lines as I wanted them. If he didn't like it then [--word removed--] off. Some weak people rely on intimidation to get their own way - perhaps he was out of his comfort zone but didn't like to admit it.
 
I did think of that, the problem is that once he was there, while I could ask him to f*** off, there was no way that I could make him go. He had already suggested that I should go f*** myself which I was reluctant to try.
 
I've been living and sailing in Cornwall for 6 years now. I can assure you that we have tossers here but the proportion is no higher than in any other part of the world! In fact, having come from the Solent I would say the ratio of arrogant barstewards is lower here.
 
\if you don't like the way that someone moors up next to you then leave, if only to go round in a circle and come back on the outside - that's your right.
Sounds a bummer of a berth to me; I'd change it - or consider parking some low punt alongside permanently.
 
If it was my perm berth and I didn't like the way they moored up next to me - then refused to do anything about it then I would be force them to leave - I don't know how - but there is NO WAY anyone is going to tie up badly alongside my boat which is likely to cause me damage.
 
If someone is going to moor alongside you
INSIST that they rig fore and aft breast ropes
AND Springs, both fore and aft,
AND shorelines.
It is also their responsibility to provide adequate fendering.
Personally I dislike the use of amidships cleats for springs. IMHO they should go from the bow of one vessel to the quarter of the other and vice versa.

If they are not prepared to moor correctly then tell them to go elsewhere !
 
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On the way past I noticed that there was one large rather tatty yacht outside mine, it was flying two Cornish flags but at the time I had no prejudice against Cornwall persons.( I don't know the collective word for people from Cornwall)

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So, if I have a bad experience with an obnoxious Scot, should I then translate this experience into a prejudice against the Scots?
 
".( I don't know the collective word for people from Cornwall)"

Cornish?? /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
I was taught that after berthing alongside and rigging lines to suit myself...ask the innner boat skipper if they are happy and modify lines till they are. It's only manners.

The tosser alongside you was a bully and a p**ck. Good job he wasn't alongside my old dad, he would have been swimming for it.
 
If it was me - he would have had a mouthful back and a demand to do it properly.
You are correct IMHO and he was a pr*t.

Unfortunately some of these people just don't see further than their own nose ... and often means you have to sort yourself. I would have rigged own lines to sort it if he refused. If he then cont'd to give stick - I would photo the two boats and then later again if SLIGHTEST scrape or damage occurred - with comment - "For Insurance Co."

Problem is to prevent it becoming a physical argument.

I had a situation in Bembridge one year on visitors pontoon. My boat has relatively low freeboard being a typical 70's boat. I had choice of a larger Cobra or an Elizabethan 29 to berth alongside. The Lizzy flatly refused to accept my lines and in fact had no fenders out ... So I tried the Cobra - but his freeboard was such that my stanchions were being pressed ... so had to drop back to the Lizzy.... as his toerail and ours were similar height. Boy he was angry ... he still refused to rig fenders, wouldn't take lines ... told wife and I to stay of his deck ! Unbelievable .....

Luckily his pal was a reasonable guy and took lines and made them fast. He also passed the shore lines across ----- which we had to get to pontoon by dinghy !!

I rigged 3 fenders well spaced and nicely separating the boats.

Wife then got ready for us to go ashore by dinghy ... (this was the early days of Duver...)

I got in dinghy ready to go ... wife about to go .. when ars***le called demanding MORE fenders from us ... I duly went back on board and found another fender ... I had rigged outboard as well ... I placed it where he wanted - amidst his rude speech.

I was so angry when I went back to dinghy - I stepped of boat and straight into the harbour when dinghy moved !

I will never ever forget that event !!
 
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he still refused to rig fenders

[/ QUOTE ] Surely Nigel if YOU go alongside another boat it is YOUR responsibility to rig adequate fenders !

Otherwise agree with you. Just not on to refuse another boat permission to moor alongside in a place like the Duver. Bring back Bob Greene as Berthing Master ... remember him? Didn't argue with people though ... called the Harbour master to do that . Then the speech went " Good morning I am the Harbour Master and I have the power to................". A threat to impound a boat had instant effect! Saw him do it once to a cat skipper who was insisting on coming into the old St Helens Marina.

We were 5 or 6 abreast there on the recent B Hol and Oh boy were the idiots inside of me a PITA for not having proper springs rigged. Whole blasted trot surged back at forth with tide and wind. And I was the only one with shorelines!
 
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Did I have any rights in this situation, anyone got any suggestions what I could have done?

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I kept my boat at Crinan (canal in the winter, harbour in the summer) for many years. Yes, there is something perfectly obvious you could have done: tell the lock keeper. That - amongst other things - is what they are there for.
 
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Did I have any rights in this situation, anyone got any suggestions what I could have done?

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There are 66 million people in this country, so in a lifetime you are going to encounter a few nasty deranged individuals. There is no point trying to rationalize the situation as you were plainly dealing an irrational person.

You are not obliged to sort out such people in the national interest, in fact given prevailing permissive values the State will would probably punish you for sorting out this person.

The Cornish nationalist has a few loose screws so comfort yourself in the knowledge that when he meets his own sort they will hopefully kill each other. In the mean time I recommend scrubbing the incident from your memory banks.
 
Kilmore Quay a few years ago, rafting up was the only option. I was inside boat against the pontoon, they started coming in, they were tying up to my cleats and that was that! I threw a wobbler after the fourth rafted up, none with shore lines. I told them all, shore lines and springs OR I would cut the fecking lot of them free. Mutter mutter but they did it, one lot were from a trianing outfit in Waterford, more concerned with getting to the pub for last orders, I made them do the job properly!!
Bottom line, make yourself look big and shout back!
Stu
 
I think the threat of cutting them free if there is any likelyhood of damage to your boat is not unreasonable and should make any numbskull aware of your concerns & their responsibilities.

It also undermines their ability to go ashore at any time just in case you do carry out your threat. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Many concerns by people resisting rafting are due to bad experiences in the past. I have found that consideration, politeness & genuine efforts to meet inside boats needs will usually resolve the issues. Offering a glass of beer/Scothc/ wine as thanks once safely secured is a good ploy & can lead to long lasting friendships. But then I try very hard to not be obnoxious - even if I don't succeed with some (esp those who can't abide Blue Ensigns!!) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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Did I have any rights in this situation, anyone got any suggestions what I could have done?

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Him being Cornish has nothing to do with the situation...

Right, if you're local, you could suggest he moors his yacht correctly, or you'll round up your "friends" to help him moor his boat. Let the lock keeper/harbour master know of your position. If no joy from them, you could ask him again but with a Dictaphone running, then say you're going to call your friend the local bobbie and see if scruffy boat would like to resolve the situation with them.

Or just take the dog for a walk near his cleats! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If you don't have a dog, borrow one! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
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