Radio procedure when no reponse (From avoiding big ships thread)

awol said:
Now you lot have got me racking my memory. I use "nothing heard - out" after calling a couple of times and getting no response and have done for years. Where did I get it from? I can't find the RYA VHF SRC handbook that I got with the course all those years ago. It seems much too common (and sensible) to be an ad hoc creation.
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I *think* it's a military thing, but the lessons in the Signals Wing at Sandhurst were a long time ago now :)

Seems eminently sensible to me to use it on marine VHF as well. No need to make a big production of it, just rattle off a quick "Nonsuch, Ariam, nothing heard, out." twenty or thirty seconds after the final attempt at calling. Closes things off neatly, and might just alert the other party that you weren't ignoring them but couldn't hear.

Starting the initial call with the word "hello" is definitely a military thing, but I'm not sure if it's also a marine one? Its purpose is to fill the split second during which the squelch is opening and the human on the other end is switching their attention to the radio. It's natural to squeeze the pressel at the same moment you begin speaking; if the first thing out of your mouth is the first character of a callsign then it's likely to get missed. "Hello" is kind of sacrificial noise :)

Pete
 
Stork_III said:
Common usage from Coastguard around the corner in Thames Estuary.
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I've heard it from both Thames and Dover, last time I recall was Dover trying to contact a French yacht that was overdue. After calling intermittently for well over an hour they signed off the last attempt with "Nothing Heard, Out".
 
The CGs that I normally hear, Belfast and Stornoway, use it a lot. Both these stations have umpteen aerials. If they are trying to contact a boat, and can't, they will always say, "Nothing heard, out". This may inform the called vessel, that although they have responded, their response has not been heard. It also acts as an invitation to another vessel to come in and say, for example, "The vessel being called is anchored beside us, but there's no one aboard just now", etc. I can see a lot of good, and can see no harm.
 
"Nothing heard ... out" or "nothing heard, changing frequency to ..." is standard aviation R/T.

I would tend to say "Nothing heard, out" or "Nothing heard, listening Ch 16" - but my marine R/T (which I use infrequently) mirrors my aviation R/T which I use frequently.

In flying you use R/T a lot and it can get quite busy to the point where you are waiting for a pause to call, and then get a response of "Standby number 5". But equally you might be calling an airfield (typically military) which is listed as closed (i.e. at weekends) but it is sensible to call them in case they are not. The routine is to call three times and then tell them you haven't heard them. The "Nothing heard" call makes sense in this situation in case they are open but have a problem with their radio transmissions.

I'm not sure it is necessary in the marine environment, but I am not capable of unlearning ingrained habits.
 
nigelmercier said:
I don't remember any procedure being taught on the course, it was poor IMO.
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Aside from the very basics of VHF operation, no actual procedure was taught on my RYA course. As a beginner, before I commenced a new transmission, I had to first practice what I was going to say out loud. Eventually, by keeping a listening watch on Ch16 and paying attention to professionals transmitting, I gradually become more adept at not sounding like an idiot.

Ional said:
Off the South West coast the navy often do not reply...
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On one channel crossing a few years ago, I had an immediate response from a "big grey ship in position xxxx yyyy" who turned out to be a US Navy vessel on an anti-submarine exercise who immediately replied and altered course to avoid me.

Neil_Y said:
I have always found calling Big (blue/red/grey) ship in position xxxx yyyy heading roughly .... has worked. You don't even need the name and some military types refused to give names.
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The problem is that this - in my own experience - is dangerous. On the return channel crossing from the example given above (which had given me false confidence in ships' readiness to respond to VHF comms), I tried to communicate with a "big red ship in position xxxx yyyy heading east" who was on a collision course. Bu66er all response is what I got! By the time I'd finished trying to raise him twice on Ch 16, I found myself in a very close quarters situation. It was probably only our mains'l flicking over in an emergency gybe that alerted him to our presence at which point he executed an emergency turn to starboard at 20kts. I've never seen a ship list quite so steeply…!
 
Babylon said:
Eventually, by keeping a listening watch on Ch16 and paying attention to professionals transmitting, I gradually become more adept at not sounding like an idiot.
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Assuming you're no longer a beginner, but for the benefit of any in the Solent reading this, if you listen to ch12 instead of 16 you get a far more professional class of mariner to eavesdrop on :). And frankly this is a more useful channel to be listening to in the Central Solent and Southampton Water anyway.

Pete
 
prv said:
Assuming you're no longer a beginner, but for the benefit of any in the Solent reading this, if you listen to ch12 instead of 16 you get a far more professional class of mariner to eavesdrop on :). And frankly this is a more useful channel to be listening to in the Central Solent and Southampton Water anyway.

Pete
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And if you listen 11 to QHM Portsmouth and the IOW ferries, you get a good idea of how brief pro-exchanges can be.
 
jerrytug said:
Good point SimonFa. Excellent point.
Although I personally would not be using VHF for collision avoidance, from a yacht, in my usual stamping grounds, the Channel and the N Sea. If you eavesdrop on the ship-to-ship chat in the Dover Strait for example, language and accent are issues (think Bangla call centre).
( Eavesdropping is sensible, and a form of look-out which must be used if available, of course. )

'Certa Cito' (from my old man not me) Jerry
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I was taught at Merchant Navy College not to use VHF for collision avoidance but to take instant substantial action first, then if appropriate / necessary to communicate by VHF after clearing the danger. The reason given was that whilst the watchkeeper turned his attention to a VHF call, it risked him taking his eyes off your vessel, thereby potentially making a dangerous situation worse.
 
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Each time I have resorted to telephoning the coastguard, just in case my set has a problem, though we have heard from boats in harbour that we were loud and clear! They then contact the warship on 16, who then, and only then say they will speak to me.

We have a visual on you they say, and we are stopping firing for lunch/tea/ whatever.....it does not give one any confidence in their operators. I have been so frustrated by this I spoke 2 years ago to a high ranking FOST officer (training), who apologised and said it would be followed up. It has not changed.



I wish I had seen this post before.
You Sir are a prat.
I am not NAVY or ex (but they do a bloody good job) the guys on board (and Ladies) will be under test conditions. They will have better things to do than reply to some person who is calling on the radio. if you are in a range control area maybe you should try calling Range Control.

There are no areas that are not marked on the chart where the Navy fire weapons.

If you see yourself on the wrong side of a warship maybe it is you that are in the wrong.
 
smudge837 said:
You Sir are a prat.
I am not NAVY or ex (but they do a bloody good job) the guys on board (and Ladies) will be under test conditions. They will have better things to do than reply to some person who is calling on the radio.
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I believe they actually have quite a few people on board Her Maj's big grey jobs - and quite a few radios. If they're planning to lob big lumps of high explosive around the high seas, it doesn't seem inconceivable that one of those people might be assigned to NOPLAY comms to make sure they don't blow up someone they didn't intend to. All the others can carry on pretending to knock holes in the Iranian Navy.

In the post you're replying to:
with a message to call the warship if in the area on channel 83
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Why would they say that if they didn't want people to call them?

Prat. :)

Pete
 
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as we are into aeronautical and military terms, why not borrow also IFF Friend-Or-Foe? in case a nearby ship does not answer the call, it will be destroyed by immediate bombing and allow us to continue sailing at a leisurely pace
 
VO5 said:
I was taught at Merchant Navy College not to use VHF for collision avoidance but to take instant substantial action first, then if appropriate / necessary to communicate by VHF after clearing the danger. The reason given was that whilst the watchkeeper turned his attention to a VHF call, it risked him taking his eyes off your vessel, thereby potentially making a dangerous situation worse.
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A watchkeeping officer told me the same, VHF should not be necessary if colregs are observed properly. I have heard an American warship calling vessels as much as 12nm ahead to make a safe passage, he kept up a constant stream of calls.
 
The original post expresses the opinion’s of one ships officer from the USA.
It gives an interesting insight into the mind and practices of some Ships officers. Some of which may or may not apply in your sailing area. Most forum members being English Channel based.

Non English speaking 3rd world crews may not be so easy to communicate with by VHF. British trained may conform to the MCA’s disproval of VHF communication in collision avoidance.

For me being based close to the US and sometimes in US waters. ( with are covered by Canadian or American VTS).
I find it quite useful to listen in to the commercial traffic channels. Particularly near ferry terminals or transiting narrow channels .
I have never found it necessary when sailing to actually call a commercial vessel.

It took a while to get used to the commercial traffic calls.
The first thing I noticed, almost none of them used the proper calling procedures as taught in my original Radio certificate course. In fact its easy to spot the Newbie by his or her use of kosher radio procedure.

Most are quick one mention of each others name a quick reference to action of naming a position by local name rather than charted name. agreeing red or green passing or who is waiting for who.

Some examples of confusing terms. ETA for “the Bluff” “See you in the straight stretch” “slow Bell” “after the bluff”
I wondered of quite a while what the heck a “light tug” was. (tug without a tow)
They often don’t follow the rules. Frequently departing from them. Do you mind if I go ahead. I’ve even heard a reply “ sure, go ahead and back up”

At times it gets quite busy with the traffic operator giving them turns when to speak.

Trouble is while they all know each other and what they are all talking about its not all ways clear to an outsider.
 
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Uricanejack said:
The first thing I noticed, almost none of them used the proper calling procedures as taught in my original Radio certificate course. If fact its easy to spot the Newbie by his or her use of kosher radio procedure.
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Do you mean the monotonous droning of vessel names over and over again? :)

Yep, I would definitely say that an inability to distinguish between what's appropriate for making initial contact with a distant station who might not be paying full attention to the radio, and exchanging brief information between active operators in the immediate vicinity, could be a mark of a newbie :)

Pete
 
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