peter2407
Well-Known Member
Permanently, potential fog, actual fog, long voyages or what?
Also, where and how?
Also, where and how?
Radar Reflector - when to hoist?
- Thread starter peter2407
- Start date
CPD
Well-Known Member
Whenever you feel yuo need to, as high as possible, otherwise have a permanent fit up the mast.
VicS
Well-Known Member
Mine is permanent. Dont have to worry about hoisting it when it might be need for it then.
Octahedral type must be in the catch rain orientation.
The report by Qinetiq following the Ouzo incident showed them all to be pretty useless although some are more useless than others.
Anyone sailing in close proximity to big ships at night or in bad vis these days would be well advised to fit an active radar target enhancer such as Sea-Me I think.
Octahedral type must be in the catch rain orientation.
The report by Qinetiq following the Ouzo incident showed them all to be pretty useless although some are more useless than others.
Anyone sailing in close proximity to big ships at night or in bad vis these days would be well advised to fit an active radar target enhancer such as Sea-Me I think.
Simes
Well-Known Member
SOLAS "V"
Back in 2001 (might have been 2) SOLAS "V" came out. Safety Of Lives At Sea version 5.
Amongst other things SOLAS V states that all vessels will have a permanent RADAR reflector mounted where ever it is possible.
Means that your RADAR reflector should be mounted at all time.
As for where around 2/3 rds of the way up the mast seems to be the best.
The Quintico report found that the Echo Max reflectors where the best passive but also went on to report that active "RTEs" were better by a good margin.
Hope that this helps.
Simes
Back in 2001 (might have been 2) SOLAS "V" came out. Safety Of Lives At Sea version 5.
Amongst other things SOLAS V states that all vessels will have a permanent RADAR reflector mounted where ever it is possible.
Means that your RADAR reflector should be mounted at all time.
As for where around 2/3 rds of the way up the mast seems to be the best.
The Quintico report found that the Echo Max reflectors where the best passive but also went on to report that active "RTEs" were better by a good margin.
Hope that this helps.
Simes
JohnTH
Well-Known Member
Any radar reflector is better than no radar reflector is my opinion. The Octahedral type are an approximation of a parabola which, in the catch the rain orientation, reflect radar energy back from whence it came. Their big advantage is that they are cheap (£10:00 to £20:00) and easy to fit (or pull) up the mast.
Active radar reflectors are better however, they are not cheap neither are they easy to fit as they need to be powered all the time. Oh, and how do you know that it is switched on and working?
See and be seen is the thing to keep in mind.
73s de
Johnth
Active radar reflectors are better however, they are not cheap neither are they easy to fit as they need to be powered all the time. Oh, and how do you know that it is switched on and working?
See and be seen is the thing to keep in mind.
73s de
Johnth
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Permafit, then you won't forget if the weather closes in and you are suddenly "busy". Also gives that margin where the watchkeeper on something bigger is a little inattentive, his bridge set might ping on a CPA basis if it can see you.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
There was some suggestion that maybe the passives were worse for safety, bcz they might give the skipper the (probably wrong) impression that he could now be seen on radar !
rob2
Well-Known Member
Apart from the LED power indicator, there is a second LED which flashes whenever the unit is active (responding to a radar paint). Although nothing is failure proof, if you're in an active area like the Solent then you'll see the unit is working as the VTS radars will trigger the RTE out to the Nab Tower.
Once away from land, however, many commercial ships switch from X band radar to the longer range S band, which will not trigger the RTE, so a passive reflector, although far less effective in S band, is a good idea too.
Rob.
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Quite correct and if you were ever involved in an incident without a reflector fitted you would be found in error. I believe the best arrangement is a passive but permanent one up the mast and an active (SeaMe or similar) switched on in poor vis or shipping lanes although the latter is optional. There is no situation where it's permissable to have none in my opinion.
Georgio
Well-Known Member
Rob, you are qute correct but I would like to add that you can now buy RTE's that will work on both X and S band (SeeMee and EchoMax).
I have ordered and I'm waiting for delivery on the reciently launched Echomax XS. Based on the reports I have seen the Echomax single band product gived a stronger responce than the SeeMe so I hope the same is true of the dual band.
Either way they use little power so as far as I am concerned it is a fit and forget piece of equipment that you will be thankfull for in mid shipping lane when the fog comes down.
rob2
Well-Known Member
Just after I posted, my copy of PBO landed on the floor confirming that the dual band RTEs are now (at last) available. The greatest advantage in operation, apart from the improved returns of an RTE over passive reflector, is the fact that where you have to decide when to hoist and the associated "where did I leave it?", you just press the switch and instantly appear on ships radar screens. I wish I had the funds to uprate to a dual band!
Rob.
Rob.
prv
Well-Known Member
Highjacking the thread slightly, does anyone know whether a solid wooden mast will attenuate radar signals? KS has a permanent radar reflector of the narrow cylindrical type, but it's mounted on the front of the mast. Will it be hidden from radars coming up from behind?
Pete
Pete
JohnTH
Well-Known Member
In theory no, wood should be “invisible” to RADAR signals.
Practice may well be different so, if the mast is going to screen your reflector from the emission then your mast will reflect them back too.
This is going to run and run me thinks !
73s de
Johnth
Practice may well be different so, if the mast is going to screen your reflector from the emission then your mast will reflect them back too.
This is going to run and run me thinks !
73s de
Johnth
st599
Well-Known Member
The Qinetiq report seems to say it will be quite invisible a lot of the time.
Swagman
Well-Known Member
Radar Reflectors
IMHO best not rely on anyone seeing you - ever.
Methinks we are all better to put as much energy / kit into looking out for others than investment in kit expecting them to see you. You can manage the first - you have no influence over the second.
FWIW we average maybe 5,000 miles per year and only got a couple of octahedral aluminium jobbies we hoist when in bad viz just in case anyone else is looking out - but repeat that we never rely on them.
I think reflectors do look ugly, add weight aloft, give negative windage. So for 99% of time they are in a locker but they do go up (along with running own radar and careful watch) always in low viz.
Good luck
JOHN
IMHO best not rely on anyone seeing you - ever.
Methinks we are all better to put as much energy / kit into looking out for others than investment in kit expecting them to see you. You can manage the first - you have no influence over the second.
FWIW we average maybe 5,000 miles per year and only got a couple of octahedral aluminium jobbies we hoist when in bad viz just in case anyone else is looking out - but repeat that we never rely on them.
I think reflectors do look ugly, add weight aloft, give negative windage. So for 99% of time they are in a locker but they do go up (along with running own radar and careful watch) always in low viz.
Good luck
JOHN
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
As an aside, one of those "always wondered" things. Sails would make presumably excellent radar targets if they reflected the radar energy. How fine a metallised thread mesh in the material weave would work? I suspect this is one of those things tyhat gets wondered about now and again but there are perfectly good reasons for not doing so. Can't be economic ones, the careful PBO types notwithstanding, some boaters will buy anything
JohnTH
Well-Known Member
About forty years ago my employment involved tracking helium filled weather balloons using an airfield Radar. The Radar target being hoisted aloft was an extremely light weight mesh cloth like fabric, but what it actually was is a mystery to me.
In our brave new world of carbon fibre it may well be possible to build “something” into a sail that will reflect Radar. There may well be cost and weight implications however, what about when the wind is no more and we are motoring?
73s de
Johnth
In our brave new world of carbon fibre it may well be possible to build “something” into a sail that will reflect Radar. There may well be cost and weight implications however, what about when the wind is no more and we are motoring?
73s de
Johnth
boatmike
Well-Known Member
Which we usually are in fog anyway. In broad daylight you can usually see sails with Mk 1 Eyeball.
Passive up t'mast permanently. Active switched on when needed.... Can't inprove on that
st599
Well-Known Member
As an aside, one of those "always wondered" things. Sails would make presumably excellent radar targets if they reflected the radar energy. How fine a metallised thread mesh in the material weave would work? I suspect this is one of those things tyhat gets wondered about now and again but there are perfectly good reasons for not doing so. Can't be economic ones, the careful PBO types notwithstanding, some boaters will buy anything
The angle of incidence would have to be correct to reflect in the right direction. The sail would be a massive reflector in one direction, but 90 degrees of azimuth away would be tiny.
