Racing rules- Sailing the course

[Steve Clayton]

What I'd like to know is how did Boat A do on day 1?

 

[John.edwards]

we had a similar situation where the we followed race instructions to head for a mark (identified by lat long AND its common name, but the two didn't tally - we used the Lat long) and were 8 lengths ahead when the boats behind radioed the RO to request clarification. they were advised to go for the NAMED mark which being closer allowd them all to finish ahead of us. we protested the committee on 2 grounds. 1) the course was poorly set and 2) the radio instructions we 'outside assistance' for all other boats. looking at the post earlier, hailing to advise another boat would be 'outside assistance' and would result in disqualification.

I remember a Sydney Hobart where a crew member (not the skipper/Nav/or tactition) called a media helicopter to ask what sails a leading boat was using. should have been a disqualification.

 

[ytd]

I've seen the short time penalty used twice. Once when the sailing instructions were vague about which mark to use and once when using the incorrect mark meant the offending boat had sailed further. I can see the committee's logic when the offending boat has to sail further and a DSQ will knock them out of the competition. In the SI case the fleet sailed around a buoy commonly known as XX island. A boat well down the fleet sailed around the actual island and then protested the fleet arguing that the SI did not refer to a bouy and therefore the island was the mark. AFAIK the committee gave all the other boats a short time penalty equivalent to the time they saved rounding the buoy rather than the island which meant the protestor still finished well down the fleet.

 

[Neil_Y]

Good to see there are a few gentlemen still in the sport, very generous to let them know they had gone the wrong way, but if they don't sail the course then they haven't raced against boats that have sailed the course. We were at the front last Summer when due to poor planning (not having course details on board, courses were listed on paper and just named as course A, B, C) we really weren't sure which mark was next so dropped jib and retired, we could have followed the class in front round the same marks but felt we might be leading boats behind us astray.

If they knew they'd sailed the wrong course then retire, if they really thought the course was as they sailed and it was that unclear, then race should be thrown out of any cumulative results.

 

[st599]

looking at the post earlier, hailing to advise another boat would be 'outside assistance' and would result in disqualification.

No it wouldn't as it would be unsolicited.


A boat shall not receive help from any outside source, except
( a ) help for an ill or injured crew member;
( b ) after a collision, help from the crew of the other boat to get clear;
( c ) help in the form of information freely available to all boats;
( d ) unsolicited information from a disinterested source, which may be another boat in the same race.

 

[John.edwards]

No it wouldn't as it would be unsolicited.


A boat shall not receive help from any outside source, except
( a ) help for an ill or injured crew member;
( b ) after a collision, help from the crew of the other boat to get clear;
( c ) help in the form of information freely available to all boats;
( d ) unsolicited information from a disinterested source, which may be another boat in the same race.

 

[lw395]

I haven't sailed the RTIR for a few years, but it was the case that time penalties were applied for being over the line at the start.
Lots of people knew that this was inherently wrong and incompatible with the RRS, but we just got on with it and enjoyed the race, because this arrangement was appropriate for the ethos of the particular event.

It shouldn't happen, but sailing is full of people making local variations to rules, we either go along with it or find another regatta.
Many of us enjoy racing but don't really care about our results.

 

[Leighb]

I think there is a fundamental difference between the RTIR variation, which would primarily been for safety reasons I would imagine, and just ignoring the fact that the wrong course had been sailed.

Also it no doubt was clear in the SIs that this variation was in force.

 

[lw395]

I think there is a fundamental difference between the RTIR variation, which would primarily been for safety reasons I would imagine, and just ignoring the fact that the wrong course had been sailed.

Also it no doubt was clear in the SIs that this variation was in force.

Fundamentally, either you are within the ISAF rules, and only make allowed variations in the allowed ways, or you are not.

People generally know what they are letting themselves in for.
It sounds like it was a small race for people who are not too serious.
If the majority of the participants are happy, they will probably come back next year.
If things are too compromised for you and it spoils your racing, don't take part.

My club does some winter racing where the results are not very meaningful, but it's great to sail together in the short winter days.
I think my handicap is unjustified, but I'm not there to win, so I don't worry.
I mostly race for the practice and my own aims.
We've all sailed races where things have gone bad and mistakes have been made, maybe the wrong person has that little engraved glass on the mantelshelf!
Leave the racing on the water and have a beer.

 

[apward]

Thanks for the insight Doug. So the round barbados race is not all its cracked up to be!

 

[savageseadog]

No such thing as "informal" racing or "flexible" rules in my opinion. It's either yacht racing or it isn't, it's meaningless and possibly dangerous otherwise.