RACING RULES, INTERPRETATION

[Artimes]

Consider this, the sailing instructions for a race state that five minutes after the start signal no boat crossing the line will be considered to have a valid start. In other words starting from that line has ceased.
During the course of the race a boat while sailing the course crossed the still marked starting line (ie the markers for the starting line were still in place).
Can the crossing boat be disqualified for breach of the general rule that a boat must not cross the starting during the race. The arguement being that the five minute rule reffered to causes the "old" line to cease to exist.
Reply please with chapter and verse

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[Fin]

If the SIs don't specify that you have to go through the line on each lap then once a boat has started, the line is no longer a mark of the course and can be ignored/crossed quite happily. The 5 mins rule is normally to allow the race committee to relax and not watching for people starting for ages.

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[Phoenix of Hamble]

Airtimes,

I think i've come across this one before... I'll try to see if I can track down any info...

But if I remember correctly, the rules regarding the start line imply that during the start sequence from the 5/6/10min gun, upto 5 mins after the start, the rule applies, but after that they are no longer marks of the course, and are treated as fixed obstacles accordingly...

this is covered by rule 28.2 which states "a boat may leave on either side a mark that does not begin bound or end the leg she is on, however she shall leave a starting mark on the required side when she is approaching the starting line from its pre-start side to start"

The key words for me are the last two of 28.2, which implies that its only necessary to pass a pre-determined side of the line during the start sequence as stated in rule 26 or as per the racing instructions (which overide 26)

I think that this would cause any protest to be rejected....

besides..... wouldn't it be rather unsporting?

remember rule 69 about unsportsmanlike behaviour...!

Rgds

Neil

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[boatless]

Agree with both, you can sail round any mark you like, as long as they are not defined as exclusion areas, limit marks, or others such as finish marks. Has to be in the SIs anyway.

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.

 

[Rick]

I think some clarification is required - did the boat cross the start line within 5 minutes of the starting signal?

I'm confused by your statement "In other words starting from that line has ceased." My understanding is that unless another competitor protests, the race committee protests, or subsequently the protest committee determines that a vessel did not comply with the starting instruction, that no-one is penalised.

Back to the original question - if the boat started "legally" (and that has many possibilities) then the only issue is about the piece of string rule - 28.1 (in part) - A boat shall start, leave each mark on the correct side in the correct order, and finish, so that a string representing her wake after starting and until finishing would when drawn taught pass each mark on the required side and touch each rounding mark.

In best bush laywer tradition, I can't see how passing thru the start line affects the result UNLESS the part of 28.1 I referenced was not complied with.

"Can the crossing boat be disqualified for breach of the general rule that a boat starting during the race. "

What general rule????????????

"The arguement being that the five minute rule reffered to causes the "old" line to cease to exist."

Whether the line exists or not, rule 28.1 is the only rule that applies. Once you have crossed the start line, you are racing, unless you drift before the start line, and fail to pass between the committee boat (or limit marker) and the pin end. Unless the SI specifically exclude the water from the course, you can sail anywhere you desire, so long as you meet the 28.1 piece of string rule.




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[Cantata]

The general drift in all the replies is absolutely correct.
With reference to Rick's comment:

>>I'm confused by your statement "In other words starting from that line has ceased." My understanding is that unless another competitor protests, the race committee protests, or subsequently the protest committee determines that a vessel did not comply with the starting instruction, that no-one is penalised<<

.............if the SI's say that all competitors must 'start' within the 5 minutes following the starting signal, then anyone else afloat is marked 'DNS', no protest is required.

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[William_H]

Just as a matter of interest here in Australia the rule book specifies that an orange flag at the committee end marks the start line as active. A committee should remove the orange flag after the 5 minutes after start has elapsed. With no orange flag it is not a start line so may be crossed. The orange flag should be raised again near the finish time to signiofy it is a start/finish line again. Here on Swan river our race courses take us past several other yacht clubs where if their orange flag is flying it is means disqualification to pass through their start lines. This is a bit tricky, done by the other club telephoning a "protest" back to the boat's own club. (very dodgy) or another competitor can protest another boat passing through another club's line. Recently came across another club line from their start boat couldn't see the other end buoy and had to ask the start boat where their line was (required a sudden course change to pass on the other side of their star boat. Finally identified far buoy which was small and not standard barber pole marking I would have got very grumpy if we were protested.

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[racingron]

All good points.

Occasionally the si's state that you have to go through the line on each lap, sometimes it is specific that you shouldn't. If not mentioned, as already pointed out, go where you want.

The secret is always to read, re-read and get another of the crew to study the SI's.

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[PeteMcK]

<Once you have crossed the start line, you are racing,>

You've started, you mean. You're racing after the warning gun. But I agree: unless the SIs exclude a bit of water, you can go anywhere within the bit of string rule.

Sounds to me like the SI was perhaps meant to stop latecomers from starting and screwing up the next class start.

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[TheBoatman]

<<<Recently came across another club line from their start boat couldn't see the other end buoy and had to ask the start boat where their line was >>>>

That smacks of outside interferance to me?

Maybe if I had been in the same race I may have protested you for getting information that was not available to me<s>.

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[TheBoatman]

Here's one for you, it happened to my club but I must admit I never heard the final verdict?

Start line established in light airs.
Sequence is run and gun goes.
Some boats cross the line others do not.
Those that crossed the line run out of wind and drift back over the line.
5 minutes are up and wind fills in [gently].
Those that crossed line now pass behind the committee boat and not over the line.
Those that didn't cross the line now do so.

End result protests everywhere!

Those that crossed the line were protested by those that didn't because they didn't sail the "correct course". Something to do with the string rule?

Those that didn't cross the line were protested by those that did because they didn't "start"

What a mess?

And as I said, I never heard the final outcome.

Discuss?

BTW
I'm a rescue man not a racing sailor so much of this is beyond me<s>


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[racingron]

The protests sound reasonable, if the boats which had started had re-crossed the line they'd have been fine.

The string thing is basically used when rounding marks incorrectly (and in this case the line) - the theory being that if an imaginary piece of string trailed behind your boat goes round the course the correct way you're fine. As an example, if you round a mark the wrong way to exonerate yourself you have to backtrack (i.e. back around the mark the wrong way and then round correctly (if you draw it out with a pencil it may make more sense).

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