R.Y.A Training - what do you thinlk of it?

[Minchsailor]

I think Unicranejack has hit the nail on the head. It's possible to get a qualification with very little experience of a variety of boats. I date from the 'old school' - SC dinghies, the n with brother' Merlin Rocket. The family cruising boat,followed by crewing for parent's friends. I did the RYA courses in the late '70s at local authority evening classes (remember them); the tutor was a retired LtCol who had sailed with Adlard Coles. I seem to remember that when I did the YM Offshore it required a minimum of 2500 miles and quite a lot of night hours.

Recently I signed of a crew's log book and I was astonished by how much the experience requirement has been reduced.

 

[capnsensible]

Yep shame the ICC lacks any creditable training so Mr Bongo is in good faith releasing his boat to somebody who may have no real qualifications and so my wreck it and others and kill himself and others to boot!

Wrong and very misleading.

There are two ways to obtain an International Certificate of Competence.

The first is to be examined. The format of the test is available on the RYA website and covers the theory and practical aspects of the exam. A candidate can prepare themselves for the test any way they like, but the required knowledge is clear.

An option, widely chosen, is to succesfully complete a Day Skipper practical course. This covers all the knowledge required to be issued an ICC so allows the candidate to qualify.

Nobody 'needs' any training for leisure boating. But lots of folk prefer some coaching to help them understand their hobby.

 

[[163233]]

I seem to remember that when I did the YM Offshore it required a minimum of 2500 miles and quite a lot of night hours.

Recently I signed of a crew's log book and I was astonished by how much the experience requirement has been reduced.

It still does:-

From http://www.rya.org.uk/courses-training/exams/Pages/yachtmaster-offshore.aspx

50 days, 2,500 miles including at least 5 passages over 60 miles measured along the rhumb line from the port of departure to the destination, acting as skipper for at least two of these passages and including two which have involved overnight passages.
5 days experience as skipper.
At least half this mileage and passages must be conducted in tidal waters.
All qualifying seatime must be within 10 years prior to the exam.

 

[capnsensible]

http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/cruising/Web Documents/Boating Abroad/ICC Form.pdf

http://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-advice/boating-abroad/icc/Pages/hub.aspx

The first link is the test requirements, the second is all you need to know about the ICC.

 

[brman]

It still does:-

From http://www.rya.org.uk/courses-training/exams/Pages/yachtmaster-offshore.aspx

Indeed, I just checked the requirements for all the qualifications on the RYA website against my 1988 logbook. Requirements are identical as far as I can tell. What might confuse at a quick glance is that the old RYA/DTp Coastal skipper is now one of the 3 Yachtmaster exams. I guess that means people that pass the coastal exam can now call themselves Yachtmasters which is nice

 

[Deleted member 36384]

..... Recently I signed of a crew's log book and I was astonished by how much the experience requirement has been reduced.

The other courses were in fact increased in duration. It is no longer possible to do the course from Monday to Friday, as was common, because that is only 4 nights on the boat. Now it must be a full 5 nights, hence Monday to Saturday.

 

[[163233]]

What might confuse at a quick glance is that the old RYA/DTp Coastal skipper is now one of the 3 Yachtmaster exams. I guess that means people that pass the coastal exam can now call themselves Yachtmasters which is nice

There also seems to be some confusion with the Coastal Skipper course and the Yachtmaster Coastal exam...

 

[capnsensible]

The other courses were in fact increased in duration. It is no longer possible to do the course from Monday to Friday, as was common, because that is only 4 nights on the boat. Now it must be a full 5 nights, hence Monday to Saturday.

Another post that is wrong and misleading. See Yachtmaster Scheme Syllabus and Logbook G158/17.

Or the RYA website.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Another post that is wrong and misleading. See Yachtmaster Scheme Syllabus and Logbook G158/17.

Or the RYA website.

No its not wrong, I am sure of it.

I very well remember the communication from the RYA to the Sailing School that stated that 5 days could not be done Monday to Friday, as that was short of the time to complete the sylabus. The Principle of that school and others in the area changed their courses to run from Monday to Saturday as a direct result. I do not believe that advice was rescinded. From Scot Sail web page where the course starts on the Sunday at 18:00, so that a full 5 days is achieved.: -

The courses are 5 Days & Nights / Full Board (Mon-Fri) with Check-In/ Arrival from 1800hrs on Sundays, at our LargsCentre. Return is for about 1400hrs on the Friday and each night is spent on board in cabins, at a different island / location / marina, in the Firth of Clyde & Islands sailing area. Sailing takes place during the day on a teaching and continual-assessment basis so there is no exam or test. This is designed as an enjoyable cruising week with RYA Training.

Also see BOSS site, click on the 'Itinerary' tab which shows Arrival Evening and then Days 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5: -

https://www.boss-sail.co.uk/rya-practical-courses/rya-day-skipper-practical

I am not wrong on this and not misleading, will you retract your comments?

 

[brman]

No its not wrong, I am sure of it.

I very well remember the communication from the RYA to the Sailing School that stated that 5 days could not be done Monday to Friday, as that was short of the time to complete the sylabus. The Principle of that school and others in the area changed their courses to run from Monday to Saturday as a direct result. I do not believe that advice was rescinded. From Scot Sail web page where the course starts on the Sunday at 18:00, so that a full 5 days is achieved.: -



Also see BOSS site, click on the 'Itinerary' tab which shows Arrival Evening and then Days 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5: -

https://www.boss-sail.co.uk/rya-practical-courses/rya-day-skipper-practical

I am not wrong on this and not misleading, will you retract your comments?

I think they were always "5 days", again that is what my 1988 logbook says. I suspect the difference is that someone pointed out that a monday morning to friday afternoon course was not really 5 days so the schools had to start on the Sunday evening to get a full 5 days? Just a guess.......

 

[capnsensible]

No its not wrong, I am sure of it.

I very well remember the communication from the RYA to the Sailing School that stated that 5 days could not be done Monday to Friday, as that was short of the time to complete the sylabus. The Principle of that school and others in the area changed their courses to run from Monday to Saturday as a direct result. I do not believe that advice was rescinded. From Scot Sail web page where the course starts on the Sunday at 18:00, so that a full 5 days is achieved.: -



Also see BOSS site, click on the 'Itinerary' tab which shows Arrival Evening and then Days 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5: -

https://www.boss-sail.co.uk/rya-practical-courses/rya-day-skipper-practical

I am not wrong on this and not misleading, will you retract your comments?

It is wrong and misleading. Most recognised training centres run courses from joining on Sunday evening to finishing late afternoon on Fridays. Some will give an option to stay aboard on the last night. This is common in overseas schools where weekend courses arent practical. Uk schools often turn the yachts around friday pm for the weekend courses.

There has been no change to the duration of the courses in the twenty five years I have been instructing sailing both in the UK and overseas.

What has become common is to run a Day Skipper theory and Practical course combination over nine days rather than ten.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I think they were always "5 days", again that is what my 1988 logbook says. I suspect the difference is that someone pointed out that a monday morning to friday afternoon course was not really 5 days so the schools had to start on the Sunday evening to get a full 5 days? Just a guess.......

It has been 5 days from as long as I remember too, since at least the late 70's. The change came around for exactly the reasons I stated and you have reiterated. It happened around the late 1980's (iirc but it could be early 1990's) after a review of course quality, it caused a bit of a kerfuffle at the time because it was common to run a course Monday to Friday, then 3 x Sat/Sun courses on the same boat with the instructor having Friday and Sunday nights off. There was also a guidance note issued that instructors were not to day sail, from marina to marina, and go off the boat at night. There were a few instances of that happening on the south coast, enough to raise a concern.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

It is wrong and misleading.

It's not, you may not remember the note from the RYA then if you have only been in the game for 25 years. The point is really moot though, as all courses for along time now have included 5 nights and not the 4 nights that were certainly being run in the 1980's.

 

[capnsensible]

if you have only been in the game for 25 years.

you old flatterer

 

[capnsensible]

OK to finally resolve any ambiguities.

Yachtmaster Scheme Instructor Handbook G27. Latest edition 2015, re printed October 2016.

Page 47.

General conditions for course planning.

Paragraph 2.

All courses, with the exception of Start Yachting, should last a minimum of 103 hours. Typically, if this was a Monday to Friday course, this would be 0900 hours on Monday until 1600 hours on the friday. During the course, the yacht should sail a minimum of 100 miles including 4 night hours.

So thar ye go. Horses mouth and all that.

From an RTC point of view, it is easier for the school to get everyone together on the night before the course starts. Means no late arrivals next day holding things up. Again, overseas schools may, as a bit of advertising, also allow students to stay over friday night too. Some I know have charged for that but we never did. :encouragement:

 

[Deleted member 36384]

OK to finally resolve any ambiguities.

Yachtmaster Scheme Instructor Handbook G27. Latest edition 2015, re printed October 2016.

Page 47.

General conditions for course planning.

Paragraph 2.

All courses, with the exception of Start Yachting, should last a minimum of 103 hours. Typically, if this was a Monday to Friday course, this would be 0900 hours on Monday until 1600 hours on the friday. During the course, the yacht should sail a minimum of 100 miles including 4 night hours.

So thar ye go. Horses mouth and all that.

From an RTC point of view, it is easier for the school to get everyone together on the night before the course starts. Means no late arrivals next day holding things up. Again, overseas schools may, as a bit of advertising, also allow students to stay over friday night too. Some I know have charged for that but we never did. :encouragement:

Okay, I concede the point based on G27, that the courses can be run over 5 days, Monday to Friday, based on those start times. Neverthess, there was a point made, in communication to principles, from late 80's or early 90's, that led to the Sunday starts, or Saturday finishes, in addition to Monday to Friday. I know, because it directly effected me and my working time back then and it was a big discussion point with my principle.

 

[capnsensible]

:encouragement:

 

[Corribee Boy]

I've been put off progressing any further up the qualification ladder by the need for qualifying passages to be made in a 7m+ boat.

I understand that without a large crew it's hard to demonstrate familiarity with organising watches, and perhaps boat handling in confined spaces is easier with a 6.1m Corribee, but I still consider it to be yachting!

 

[Iminei]

This is another area that confuses me. I didn't think there was a particular limit on boat size for qualifying passages, but there is for the boat used for exams. 7m minimum LOA for YM Coastal, & 7m LWL for Offshore / Ocean.

ref own boat sections of:-
http://www.rya.org.uk/courses-training/exams/Pages/yachtmaster-coastal.aspx
http://www.rya.org.uk/courses-training/exams/Pages/yachtmaster-offshore.aspx

although http://www.rya.org.uk/courses-training/exams/Pages/qualifying-passages.aspx seems to contradict the 7m LOA

Even more of a grey area for me - 6.9m LWL & 7.5 LOA!

 

[lpdsn]

I've been put off progressing any further up the qualification ladder by the need for qualifying passages to be made in a 7m+ boat.

I understand that without a large crew it's hard to demonstrate familiarity with organising watches, and perhaps boat handling in confined spaces is easier with a 6.1m Corribee, but I still consider it to be yachting!

It's a shame you're being excluded, but I can see the RYA's PoV. Once they give you a ticket there's nothing they can do to stop you getting it commercially endorsed and using it on a workboat or similar up to 24m long. In the end they are accountable to the MCA.

Maybe someone could twist their arm to introduce a sub 7.5m YM qualification, but I'm not sure there'd be much of a market.