Quick windlass blows circuit breaker

[julians]

So this is a bit of an odd problem, wondering if the assembled experts have any ideas?

The windlass in question is a Quick bl2 windlass,it is just over one year old, as is the boat it is fitted to. All contacts and connectors are clean and free of corrosion

The windlass will lift and deploy the anchor absolutely fine, paying out (with one exception see further on) and pulling in chain with no issues at all, even when under significant strain,it runs cleanly and quickly.

However it trips the circuit breaker upon the first attempted deployment (not retrieval ) of the anchor of each day, ie the anchor is safely stowed on the roller, you get to your preferred bay for the day, press the down button (and I am pressing the down button,it's not the up button by mistake) to deploy the anchor,but the anchor doesn't deploy, you hear the motor attempt to turn,but there is no movement at all from it,it is as if it is jammed. At this point the circuit breaker trips, so you reset it,then press the windlass down button again,this time the motor runs fine, the anchor deploys fine, and can then be retrieved and redeployed as many times as you like with no tripping,until the next day when it trips again on the first deployment.

It's very odd,it's like the motor or mechnism is jammed up,or like you're pressing the up button,but I assure you I'm pressing the correct button.

The manual doesn't have much troubleshooting info in it.

Any suggestions?

 

[vas]

v.odd indeed.
I'd be tempted to pay out some chain when reaching home port in the evening and either let the anchor dangle down a bit (if safe) or take it back in the bow and store it somewhere safe.
See if it does it next morning.
Would limit out the chance that somehow overnight anchor grabs somewhere and first go is "wasted" in "shaking it" out of lock mode.
Yeah, sounds absurd, but so is what you describe tbh

how close to the nominal value of the windlass is the breaker?

second silly option would be to see if you can release chain manually, if so on first go release the first metre like that and then hit the down button.

third try would be to see if it does it before even starting the engine in the morning, so first thing once you enter the boat.

fourth (again) silly thing to test is on reaching destination, turning off and then on the breaker before even trying to drop the anchor ?

a DC amp clamp to measure what is demanded in various scenarios by the windlass would be helpful.
I could go on with silly ideas but I'll stop here I think!

good luck

V.

 

[julians]

v.odd indeed.
I'd be tempted to pay out some chain when reaching home port in the evening and either let the anchor dangle down a bit (if safe) or take it back in the bow and store it somewhere safe.
See if it does it next morning.
Would limit out the chance that somehow overnight anchor grabs somewhere and first go is "wasted" in "shaking it" out of lock mode.
Yeah, sounds absurd, but so is what you describe tbh

how close to the nominal value of the windlass is the breaker?

second silly option would be to see if you can release chain manually, if so on first go release the first metre like that and then hit the down button.

third try would be to see if it does it before even starting the engine in the morning, so first thing once you enter the boat.

fourth (again) silly thing to test is on reaching destination, turning off and then on the breaker before even trying to drop the anchor ?

a DC amp clamp to measure what is demanded in various scenarios by the windlass would be helpful.
I could go on with silly ideas but I'll stop here I think!

good luck

V.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have tried your third try suggestion ,ie lowering the anchor in the marina before even switching the engine on, it still trips the breaker.

The breaker is a quick supplied and branded hydro magnetic breaker for the windlass,so presumably sized correctly? But I don't know what size it really is. It doesn't trip even when lifting the anchor against some strain.

It's forecast rain for tomorrow,so tomorrow's job will be to investigate some more and see if I can work out the issue, I'm wondering if there is some corrosion in a connector I couldn't see, specifically something to do with the down operation

 

[Portofino]

Sounds like the commutator in the motor is dirty or it’s voids are too small for the brushes .Something like that .
When you say it retrieves ok it’s actually on the edge burning brushes and the crap fills the gaps , settles over night .So next morning irrespective of where the anchor is , in or hanging a 1/2 M —— Zap it blows .Once it’s done a rotation it’s fine for the rest of the day .
Solution = bigger motor , next size up I am afraid .

Your post # 1 is a modal of description btw .Wish others would be so detailed.

 

[vas]

nice point Porto, would be worried if that happened after a single year of use though! unless it's a quality control issue...

 

[vas]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have tried your third try suggestion ,ie lowering the anchor in the marina before even switching the engine on, it still trips the breaker.

The breaker is a quick supplied and branded hydro magnetic breaker for the windlass,so presumably sized correctly? But I don't know what size it really is. It doesn't trip even when lifting the anchor against some strain.

It's forecast rain for tomorrow,so tomorrow's job will be to investigate some more and see if I can work out the issue, I'm wondering if there is some corrosion in a connector I couldn't see, specifically something to do with the down operation

what's a hydromagnetic breaker? I'm familiar with BlueSea typical breakers (got one 80A for the windlass, a 40A for the passerelle and another one for the air compressor and something else I'm missing...)
got any photos?

V.

 

[julians]

what's a hydromagnetic breaker? I'm familiar with BlueSea typical breakers (got one 80A for the windlass, a 40A for the passerelle and another one for the air compressor and something else I'm missing...)
got any photos?

V.

Quick SpA - Products and Accessories for the Boating Industry - made in Italy

 

[vas]

OK, not at all wiser I'm afraid. When I have some time I'll have a go at understanding how these breakers actually work!

 

[julians]

OK, not at all wiser I'm afraid. When I have some time I'll have a go at understanding how these breakers actually work!

More info in here

Circuit breaker - Wikipedia

 

[Seastoke]

Maybe go up front lift chain locker and see if chain is twisted , and get wench to operate.

 

[julians]

Maybe go up front lift chain locker and see if chain is twisted , and get wench to operate.

I Should have said there is no obvious obstruction in the chain, it is all straight and clean and not blocking the windlass from running, everything looks fine in the locker.

Wench has already been told to operate the winch, indeed it was her that blew the breaker the first time and I accused her of pressing the up button by mistake instead of down, but upon closer inspection she was actually pressing the down button.

 

[SC35]

It does rather sound as if the windlass motor has issues - the breaker will trip with excess current, and if the chain and the gears are free, that leaves the motor.
You could try disassembling to see if something was rattling around in the gears.
Refurbishing these things is not straightforward.

 

[JAH]

Two more suggestions for you to consider.

If your installation has a single 'reversing' relay (aka solenoid) operated by both UP and DOWN buttons, rather than one 'simple' relay for each, then a fault within that 'reversing' relay can cause a short across the high-current lines and so trip the breaker. To detect this, I think the relay would need to be removed from the boat for bench-testing.

By the same logic, if an UP button sticks on due to internal failure, the next use of a DOWN button can trip the breaker (depending on your boat's wiring) and possibly clear the fault in the UP button temporarily. Probing the buttons and relay(s) before first use of the day with a multimeter will detect this.

I hope this helps.

 

[Portofino]

In the morning take the chain off the gypsy. Hand turn the thing in the down Dir .
With the chain off try it down then the other way just to see if it is the motor temp ceasing .

Next morning re try it avec chain if it blows it’s the motor as I said sticking on its commutator.

un plug the up relay to eliminate post #13. If it’s got a twin set up as described in this post ?

 

[Seastoke]

i take there is only one set of switches.

 

[julians]

i take there is only one set of switches.

Yes,just one set of switches.

So this morning it took a few goes to 'unstick' it,but once it was free it ran smoothly no problems. When it is stuck I can hear and feel the motor trying to turn,the circuit breaker doesn't blow immediately ,it takes a few seconds of the motor trying to turn.

I took the gypsy off and the shaft turns freely, also the shaft is straight and true.

I have run the motor with no load at all in both directions for a few minutes,all seems fine.

It has a single contactor box that does all the switching including reversing the direction of the motor, this seems to be working fine you can hear it clunking when you press the up and down buttons.

I have disassembled the various components,ie separated motor from gearbox ,gearbox from shaft, shaft from gypsy,all looks ok. Have put it all back together and will see what happens next.

In parallel I will get in touch with quick and see what they think,it should all be under warranty still regardless....

 

[julians]

PS - I am wondering whether the circuit breaker is simply undersized for the windlass (600w 12v) . The Quick web page for this windlass says it needs an 80a circuit breaker whereas the manual for the windlass says it needs a 60a circuit breaker. Which is correct? only Quick knows......

The circuit breaker fitted is 60a.....

 

[Croftie]

Just a thought, do you have a long cable run? if so there could be a voltage drop esp if batteries a bit low in the morning, If the motor wants 600w and the voltage is low then amperage goes up. Perhaps previously it was "just within limits" but now batteries a little older etc its now tripping.

 

[julians]

Just a thought, do you have a long cable run? if so there could be a voltage drop esp if batteries a bit low in the morning, If the motor wants 600w and the voltage is low then amperage goes up. Perhaps previously it was "just within limits" but now batteries a little older etc its now tripping.

It's a pretty short run of cables, it has a dedicated windlass and bow thruster battery located at the bow pretty near to the windlass, but it could be something like that.... I dunno.

 

[vas]

It's a pretty short run of cables, it has a dedicated windlass and bow thruster battery located at the bow pretty near to the windlass, but it could be something like that.... I dunno.

easy to check the voltage across the battery and the windlass in the morning and later through the day. Doubt it will be it as it seems that it happens on the first attempt which is obvs not in the marina but in your first anchoring spot so engine should be charging all batteries during the trip no matter how short and 99% engine will be running when you drop the anchor.

12Vx60A = 720, windlass is 600 assuming a low blowing fuse/contactor I guess it should be OKish. would be interesting to remove brushes and see how the commutator (sp?) looks like as atm Porto's original suggestion and JAH ideas are the best bets (imho)

V.