Qualified Or Not, What Would You Do?

Thank you cngarrod,

Not a pessimist, the skipper is very angry though! An attempt is being made to brush the whole affair off as a 'touching bottom' incident.

The safety of this crew was seriously put at risk, due, to an an act of willful negligence by the marina operator. The marina operator's official line is that they didn't guess right, how much water was under the craft at the time, but the skipper had already submitted this information to them on entering the marina, a few years earlier.

Why am I doing this?

Because I don't like big fish, who say they have standards, going around bullying tadpoles!

Now please let's have some more advice or opinion, what else would you do?

Regards,

Firstspirit.
 
Sailbadthesinner,

Thank you for your reply, another poster with a brilliant sense of humour, but the first thing this skipper and crew did do was absolutely s--t themselves. It was not funny, not at all funny. We can only laugh about it because thankfully, nobody was seriously injured. You can not count the stress and panic-attacks since, can you? Some of the younger crew have been very frightened since.

The point is, who is responsible for this event happening and why? What should they do to make up for it. What about damage to the vessel, there was lots of banging and groaning under the vessel whilst it fell? If the marina operator has admited they didn't know the depth of the water under the vessel, what else don't they know is in their marina....lumps of scrap, trolleys, anchors, engine blocks, who knows?

Remember your smoke alarm isn't one without a battery!

Lets here some more of your view on this incident please.

Regards


Firstspirit.
 
Dera Hex1e,

Bernie your doin fine.

The skipper and first mate checked imediately in all bilge areas as original fear was a major water intake.

How would you pin-point the blame? Who is responsible, remember there was no notice or warning given to this vessel, despite the full knowledge of the marina operator, knowing that the vessel was occupied.

What do you think?

Regards,

Firstspirit
 
Re: Summat funny \'ere.....

Dear Boatone,

Thank you for your reply. You have a right to be suspicious, but this is not a hyperthetical situation, this really did happen in a 'safe' UK marina berth. Please allow me to guide you, as other forum posters have already worked this through.

Firstly, the crew were not even aware that the vesel was going to lean-to, never mind fall-over hard to one side. Anyone can prepare if they KNOW something is going to happen.

The marina operator has confirmed in writing that they didn't guess the right amount of water under the vessel, so they also believed that the vessel was going to just sit down gently.

The reason for the lack of water is given as siltation but this is not confirmed, perhaps the vessel has sat awkwardly on something else on the marina floor?

It was a stormy night. Noise levels are always higher, creaks, groans, rattles, so that's why the skipper and first mate didn't notice anything. Remember, all other crew were in bed.

The vessel weighs in at just under 40 tonne.

Put this all together and you have an explanation of what might have happend. Unaware crew. The water level dropped. The vessel sat up-right (without water supporting it) on the silted bottom or underwater obstruction, thus refusing to let the vessel move downwards. The weight of the vessel was finally shifted critically by a gust of wind, but possibly because the mooring lines had stretched in the wind, the fall was even greater....KABOOM!

All accidents are caused by some failure of something somewhere, a system, a procedure, a policy etc....this is no exception...something went wrong that night, but who is responsible?

Now I hope I have persuaded you how it might have happened, will you please tell me what would you do in this situation.


Regards,

Firstspirit.
 
Re:No No No!

Syd,

Thank you for your posting. Flash stills were taken same night, video first light next day. Insurance Consultants called next day.

What else would you do, that can't be all can it?

Regards,

Firstspirit
 
Re: I know - do nothing!

Tcm

Hello again! Outside forces at work?

Did I forget to mention that the skipper of this vessel had raised concerns at the excessive rise in marina moorings, just a week or so before this terrible incident?

Must have slipped my mind, but no acusation is being made or implied here, of course!

It might just meqn making a song and dance, you never know do you?

Regards,

Firstspirit.
 
Hello suzanne,

I'm afraid you lost me on that one, but suppose it was a motorcruiser that I'm talking about, would that make this incident any less frightening, reckless or less serious?

Are motorcruisers and their crew not people who have feelings of being terrified when put in danger?

Come on suzanne, i need your brainpower here, what would you really do?

Regards,

Firstspirit.
 
Re: WAIT for the tide to come back in.NM

Hey Oldlgit,

Spare me some of your infinite wisdom and tell me what would you do if this happened to you, your vessel and crew?

Regards,

Firstspirit
 
Dear ccscott49,

Thank you for your posting.

The skipper in question did panic first. Then, ever so frantically, started ripping up the bilge boards to check for a mass water-ingress.

Moving on, nobody physically hurt, marina manager briefly inspects vessel next day, before sending a team of 4 divers to the berth, (who were working elsewhwere in the same marina.) Manager tries to make light of the situation, not acknowledging what a terrific night skipper and crew had.

Insurance contacted, what next, consider that this could happen to you, this question could be regarded as a rehearsal for some, what else would do?

Regards,

Firstspirit
 
Re: Come on FS, Tell us what you did nm

Dear syd,

The skipper involved, imediately contacted berthing master to raise the alarm. Asked for imediate attention. Tried to calm first mate and crew, who were very frightened, who wouldn't be, the skipper was too! Checked for water ingress in each bilge area. Took still photographs, showing level of water against hull, with obvious reference marks for further use. Took still photographs showing angle of tilt, use pontoon pilings, ideal for this as they are reasonably vertical.

Then, skipper requested berthing master to accompany to official Notice to Mariners, notice boards to witness any signage of sudden waterloss scheduled for that evening.

Then insisted that the whole matter be officially logged in the marina accident book and log report. Insisted the manager be in touch first thing in the morning, insisted that the marina is responsible for the safety of the vessel and crew, insisted that a watch was placed on the vessel through the night.

Make video, register complaint, request official explanation for incident, in writing mind! Contact insurance consultant.

What else would you do syd?

Regards,

Firstspirit
 
Re: Call for the travel hoist

Sorry syd,

Wrong!

This was a pontoon berth, someone let the plug out without telling the skipper or crew, it is that simple, honest.

Regards,

Firstspirit.
 
Welcome dave36,

The vid was postponed till further notice, under the circumstances, but I get your drift.

So, what would you do if this happened to you?

Regards,

Firstspirit.
 
Welcome Salty-Sam,

That was then and over there and now you can laugh but what if it happened again as described in the incident above, what would you do?

Give me a blast!

Regards,

Firstspirit
 
Re: Summat funny \'ere.....

I felt an earthquake in Brussels a couple of weeks ago. Got into the office next morning and everyone was really excited.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/forbsie>My Project Pics</A>
 
I understand your reaction entirely.

It is my belief that if you are instructed to a place by a marine athat know your draft and LOA if it turns out not to be 'fit for the purpose' they should be liable.
I hate the increassingly litigeous society where everything has to be someone's fault. but by rights you could well have left the boat there a few days and who knows what repeated dropping would have done to it.

As someone else pointed out the skipper is not there to know about the marina. once in the entrance he is at their instruction. okay it might be blindingly obvious a particular berth is too small for the boat or other some such factor, and if the skipper knowinlgy places his/ her boat in an unsuitable berth they have no redress.

What has the resolution to date been?



...It was like that when i found it!
 
Re: WAIT for the tide to come back in.NM

If there was ANY possibility of the vessel taking the ground perhaps making sure the craft listed towards the wall/wharf/dockside should have be made.


O my Gawd its still going ahead......
 
RE that was then!

Firstspirit,

Avast there! and other nautical expressions; your handle, is that a reference to grog???

What would I do now that I'm older but no wiser?

1. Don't trust the idiot who made the tidal heght calculation in the first place.

2. Do my own calculations before I dropped the Bollock ( nautical term for a large lump of lead on the end of a flakey bit of rope, good for holding in mud)

3. Grab a torch, VHF handheld, bottle of grog, warm cloths and a good book. It's going to be at least another 4 hours before I can do anything useful. I am not going anywhere.

With the torch I can, read the book, see to operate the VHF and talk to all those boats who pass by, and last but not least monitor the amount of grog I have at any moment to ensure it lasts the term of my being the object of interest.

I trust my other shipmates will also have the sense to do similar things, but I doubt it of the Skipper, he will stay in the Lee berth!
 
Re: RE that was then!

Thank you Salty-Sam for your posting.

The first answer is NO, there is no connection with me handle (that's an old CB term innit?) and CROG.

Secondly, I must remind you that the only bollock, as you put it, dropped here, was that of the marina operator not informing the skipper or crew of the water-loss which they knew was to be expected that bitterly cold and windy night.

As I have reminded other users of this forum, humour is a valuable self defence mechanism and one which will often see most of through some nasty life experiences but this was a very frightening and potentially life-treatening incident.

Had the vessel fallen the other way, God knows what might have happened. This is a serious posting as it did happen to one vesse in a 'safe' UK marina berth.

Please have another think and if you find it too difficult to think of it happening to you, then think of it as having happened to your best mate, your relations, your colleagues etc.

Now, what would you do, feel say, who is responsible and what would you do about it? Give it a go Salty, let's here some more.

Regards,

Firstspirit.
 
Re: Summat funny \'ere.....

"Put this all together and you have an explanation of what might have happend. Unaware crew. The water level dropped. The vessel sat up-right (without water supporting it) on the silted bottom or underwater obstruction, thus refusing to let the vessel move downwards. The weight of the vessel was finally shifted critically by a gust of wind, but possibly because the mooring lines had stretched in the wind, the fall was even greater....KABOOM!"

I'm a bit confused here...

So was this a fin keel yacht?

If it was, then how did it sit upright till all the water drained away, then suddenly fell over? I guess it is theoretically possible, but so is balancing a pencil on its point...

If it is a bilge keel yacht it would have sat upright on it's keels.

If it is a motorboat then it would have lain on one side or the other as the water gurgled out. Even if it had stayed upright and then "fallen over" it wouldn't have fallen far, more settled really.

So what type of boat was it?

Ari.
 
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